garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) (01/30/85)
> "Spanking" is a marvelous euphemism. When one adult strikes another, > it's called "assault," or maybe just "hitting." When one adult strikes another, it's actually "battery," not assault, if indeed the striking is found to be criminal in nature. > We also call it > "hitting" if one kid strikes another, and we condemn that, too (often, > it seems from the responses here, by hitting HIM!). But an adult > hitting his or her kid is just "spanking." Our daughter, 2 yrs and 1 month, already understands the difference between spanking and hitting; too bad you don't. Do you ever slap someone on the back whom you haven't seen in a long time? Do you ever hold out your palm and say, "Give me five!" ? Are these actions also "assault"? > Look, violence is violence. And spanking is spanking, and never the twain shall meet. (Aren't word games fun? Too bad they don't prove anything.) > You accept not being able to force everyone else in the world to > submit to your will. (At least, I hope you do!) Why is your child > any less privileged? I guess I should allow my two year old the right to place her hand on the range, or stick metal objects in electric outlets (after removing those safety plugs), and let her play in the turnpike. After all, she has the right to do all these things, doesn't she? > "Spanking" -- child beating -- has been around for a long time, it's > true: look at the world out there and see if we haven't reaped just > what's been sown. > -- > Jan Wolitzky, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ; (201) 582-2998 By all means, look; and I wager that the people who have the most respect for others were spanked (not beaten; I deny that the terms are synonymous) as children. Gary Samuelson ittvax!bunker!garys P.S. How old are your children?
tron@fluke.UUCP (Peter Barbee) (02/04/85)
I have now read several rebuttals to Jan's posting and one common (I think it was in all followups) thread was justifying spanking because the child couldn't be allowed to <touch hot burners, play in road, prod electric sockets>. Most responses had other reasoning to, I'm curious about this one though. Why is it that a child learns better when spanked? I understand one explanation that goes along the line of "spanking proves that the <action> is very bad and that the parent is very serious about what they are saying". My daughter is now 4 and she understands "Katie, I'm really serious about this." and other words like that. I'm sorry, I can't remember when she started understanding but it seems like it was a long time ago. I think that if I spank her I might be teaching her that when I really mean something I hit her. Another explanation (of why spanking should be used as negative reinforcment for potentially lethal games) is that the <action> is so bad that the parent can't allow it to take place even once. But why does spanking need to be the negative reinforcment? Before you flame, I'd like to add that I'm mostly interested in what the answers are going to be. I have, on two occasions, spanked Katie. The first was before I had thought much about the subject and the second was when she caught me with my patience running very thin. In my own mind I can't justify either event but I'm NOT worried about Katie's mental health as a result of them. Peter Barbee decvax-+-uw-beaver-+ ihnp4--+ allegra-+ ucbvax----lbl-csam-+--fluke!tron sun-+ ssc-vax-+ :
canopus@amdahl.UUCP (Flaming Asteroid) (02/07/85)
From Mr. Barbee: > I have now read several rebuttals to Jan's posting and one common > (I think it was in all followups) thread was justifying spanking because > the child couldn't be allowed to [etc etc] [...] > Why is it that a child learns better when spanked? > > My daughter is now 4 and she understands "Katie, I'm really serious about this." > and other words like that. I'm sorry, I can't remember when she started > understanding but it seems like it was a long time ago. [...] > > Before you flame, I'd like to add that I'm mostly interested in what the > answers are going to be. I have, on two occasions, spanked Katie. The > first was before I had thought much about the subject and the second was > when she caught me with my patience running very thin. [...] My response [Sorry, no flame!] I think your second occasion is fairly typical. Parents are human beings, too, and at times can act irrationally. That is not meant to be an attempt to justify parental actions, just a statement of fact. Also, those of you with more than one child know each has his/her own little personality. You, Peter, are incredibly fortunate that Katie understands and *listens* to you at age 4. My youngest, who will be 4 this summer, could try the patience of a saint! I have never spanked her, but I will give her a single pat (not hard to inflict any pain, but firm enough to get her attention) if she is engaged in inappropriate behavior, and is ignoring our verbal advice. It has been my experience that no two children are the same, and disciplinary methods must be tailored to each one. [Really profound, huh?] It has also been my experience (not with my kids, but rather myself as a youngster with three brothers) that parents tend to spank when they lose their tempers. -- Frank Dibbell (408-746-6493) {whatever}!amdahl!canopus [R.A. 6h 22m 30s Dec. -52d 36m] [Generic disclaimer.....]