[net.kids] "Discipline," again

colonel@gloria.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) (02/25/85)

["Would you want to eat a doormat that ate bark and fungus?"]

> I know that this is not the case with every parent, but I have seen
> many try to shift the responsibility for discipline of their child to
> teachers.  Even though my class (karate) is supposed to teach
> discipline, I often find parents asking me to take care of their
> child's reading problem, sibling problems, classmate problems, etc.  I
> even had one ask me to smack their kid for them because of the child
> being unruly in the car on the way to class.

Karate supposed to teach discipline!  That sounds like a figment of
pedagogical mythology.

When applied to kids, "discipline" means one of two things:

	1. Do what I tell you, not what you want to do.
	2. Beating kids for not doing what you tell them.

Major premise: you can learn discipline only from a truly disciplined
	person.
Minor premise: a truly disciplined person does not teach discipline.
Conclusion: ???

	"If you beat children for pleasure, avow your object
	frankly, and play the game according to the rules, as
	a fox-hunter does ... No foxhunter is such a cad as
	to pretend that he hunts the fox to teach it not to
	steal chickens ... "
				G. B. Shaw (1903)
-- 
Col. G. L. Sicherman
...decvax!sunybcs!gloria!colonel

barry@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mikki Barry) (02/27/85)

I will stand by my previous statement "Karate teaches discipline".

Many who disagree have never attended a karate class, especially a class of
children.

And, contrary to some people's belief, we do NOT teach discipline by smacking
the kids.  We don't touch them except to demonstrate technique and they are
NEVER hurt by the instructors (at least at our school).  There is a huge
difference between respect for a teacher, and fear of one.  Self-confidence
is a large part of self-defense training.  If a student is too busy cowering
from fear of the instructor, he/she won't learn a damn thing.

Our classes teach both physical, and mental discipline.  Muscles are developed
along with the mind.  How to get out of fighting, how to get along with
schoolmates, how to avoid dangerous situations, how to (and what to) scream if
presented with danger are all part of the discipline we teach our students.

So before taking a bad view of modern karate training (or kickboxing/combat
self-defense which is what I teach), go to a reputable school with a children's
class and WATCH the interaction.  The kids learn to respect instructors, each
other, and themselves.  And that is a worthwhile lesson these days.

Mikki Barry
Black Belt/Instructor