jmm@ski.UUCP (Joel M. Miller) (02/21/85)
How do you teach respect for the truth?
How do you teach kids to tell the truth?
By example?
By reward & punishment?
By describing the rewards (like being taken at your word)
that accrue to the honest?
Should truth-telling be made an issue between parent & child?
Does doing so let the child know that you consider habitual
lying a serious matter?
Does it cause rebellious lying?
What do you do if you're 90% sure your kid did break the vase,
but s/he continues to deny it?
Do you think "innocent until proven guilty" and risk, in
effect, teaching the kid that lying gets him/her out of
being punished?
Do you risk punishing the innocent?
Do you punish the basic infraction & the lie about having done it
as 2 seperate things (the lie more serious)?
How do you explain why its important to tell the truth?
How do you explain why we all sometimes lie?
Do kids understand what the truth is? (I am thinking of what appear
to adults to be simple matters of fact.)
... Just some random questions that occurred to me when I found
the vase broken and the football in the livingroom.
Any thoughts?
--
Joel M Miller; Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Sciencs
2232 Webster St; San Francisco CA 94115
415/561-1703
{ucbvax,dual,sun}!twg!ski!jmm
{ucbvax!mtxinu,dual!ptsfa,sun!texsun}!politik!ski!jmmmark@tove.UUCP (Mark Weiser) (02/23/85)
In article <160@ski.UUCP> jmm@ski.UUCP (Joel M. Miller) writes: >How do you teach respect for the truth? We started confronting this when our oldest daughter (now 7.5) was 5. There were lots of evasions of the truth starting at that age, generally self serving. Dr. Spock says that children around that age often seem to be lying a lot, but they are not really-- they are exploring the nature of the relationship of words to reality. That is, they are not lying for evil purposes but merely in the spirit of scientific exploration (which, I think (not Spock, me) is good). Since that time I have evolved an approach which attempts to make it clear to the child that the truth is not just an abstract and arbitrary rule but something absolutely tangible and real which one cannot escape and in fact should get on good terms with. I am mostly an areligious person, but respect for the truth (initially in my scientific work but now forced by my children to be extended to everyday life) is as close I get to reverence. In practice it works like this: when I suspect a lie, I discuss with the child (our 7 year old, Nicole) WHY I think it is a lie. I try to turn over with her the facts in the matter, bringing to bear the analytical skills I hope she is also learning, and let her see that the truth in a situation is inescapable. If the facts are ambiguous then sometimes we talk about what we could do to discover the truth if only we had the time or resources. These are not usually the long and meandering discussions I may have made them sound like. Early on Nicole usually makes some admission of guilt, and I say something like "the truth is really important, it matters very much to me that you tell the truth, I would much rather that you just tell me if you do something wrong so we can work together to fix it than have you lie to me about it." It doesn't always work, but I like this approach because it give me a consistent philosophy to hang my hat on with her. Part of the problem is that there are other places in her life, at school and elsewhere, where it really is better to lie because the punishments are ridiculous. I don't know what to do about this except discuss with her how there is something wrong with those people. We also talk about situations in which it is appropriate to lie, usually with regard to child abuse situations (which we talk about under the euphemism of "kidnapping" most of the time), in which she knows she should lie if asked to "not tell anyone", but then come tell us anyway. >Do kids understand what the truth is? (I am thinking of what appear > to adults to be simple matters of fact.) Depends on age, of course. Our 7 year old becomes incensed at our 3 year old when 3 says something which 7 interprets as a lie, like "that's MY street" as we drive though a new neighborhood never seen before or since. I have a tough time explaining that 3 does not know what is or is not a lie in most cases yet, and so cannot be held responsible for lies, but that 7 DOES know and so can be so held. 7 just shouts: "That's not FAIR, daddy!". -- Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland Phone: +1-301-454-7817 CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!mark USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
colonel@gloria.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) (02/25/85)
> > How do you teach respect for the truth? > We started confronting this when our oldest daughter (now 7.5) > was 5. There were lots of evasions of the truth starting at that > age, generally self serving. Dr. Spock says that children around > that age often seem to be lying a lot, but they are not really-- > they are exploring the nature of the relationship of words to reality. > That is, they are not lying for evil purposes but merely in the spirit > of scientific exploration (which, I think (not Spock, me) is good). Spock is a competent M.D. and writer, but a poor psychologist. You'll notice that he offers no evidence for his theory. I suspect that he may be lying to protect the children. "Respect for the truth" is just a code-phrase for "tell me the truth!" If you want your children to tell you the truth, you must reward them and not punish them for doing so. In particular: 1. Show them that you appreciate their owning up to mischief, even if you must punish them for it. Don't take veracity for granted. You have to earn it! 2. Don't ask unnecessary questions. If you can see what happened, there's no need for an interrogation. This goes also for bullying questions like "Didn't I tell you not to ...?" 3. Don't ask questions in an artificial voice. "Who knocked the lamp over?" is less likely to be answered honestly if you ask it in the tone of an ogre or a drill sergeant. Listen to yourself! I'm happy to see this topic on the net. Can anybody else offer advice or experience? -- Col. G. L. Sicherman ...decvax!sunybcs!gloria!colonel
rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman) (02/28/85)
A good topic! We're starting off with our 3-1/2 yr. old on a tack suggested
by his receiving a tape of "Pinocchio" as a gift from someone. When we catch
him in a intentional fib, we simply smile and respond "Joel, I think your
nose is growing", and let it go at that. He knows that we know, and that,
we believe, is sufficient for now. I mean, if we can convince him that we're
omniscient, we won't have to worry about him trying to lie to us :-).
Seriously, I think it's important NOT to lie to a kid. Even if Joel is
going to undergo something unpleasant or painful, we'll warn him that
it will hurt. Not days before he's going to experience it, mind you;
there's no need to get him all worked up. We keep our promises to him
too, which means we don't make any rash ones just to shut him up. Looking
back on my own childhood, the thing I most disliked about my parents was
their tendency to hypocracy (not that I think they were any worse than
99% of the population in this regard). I'm not going to replicate that
in my parenting.
--
______ Russ Herman
/ \ {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh
@( ? ? )@
( || ) The opinions above are strictly personal, and
( \__/ ) do not reflect those of my employer (or even
\____/ possibly myself an hour from now.)kaiser@jaws.DEC (Pete Kaiser 225-5441 or 274-6565) (03/01/85)
> How do you teach respect for the truth?
For one thing, by being truthful. It helps to value honesty -- particularly
in the difficult areas, like your own personal life. Our children emulate
us, no matter what we do; they don't do what we say, they do what we do. Be
honest with yourself and with them, express in your own life the superior
utility of honesty over the short-term advantage of dishonesty, and you'll
have a good start on helping your offspring be truthful.
---Pete
Kaiser%JAWS.DEC@decwrl.arpa, Kaiser%BELKER.DEC@decwrl.arpa
{allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-jaws!kaiser
DEC, 77 Reed Road (HLO2-1/N10), Hudson MA 01749 617/568-5441