[net.kids] THE CIRCUMCISION DECISION

bjb@drutx.UUCP (BarnesBJ) (03/20/85)

THE CIRCUMCISION DECISION

I would like to hear the pro's and con's of circumcising
infant boys other than for religious reasons.

joeh@sftig.UUCP (J.Hefner) (03/21/85)

> THE CIRCUMCISION DECISION
> 
> I would like to hear the pro's and con's of circumcising
> infant boys other than for religious reasons.

I'm sure that some may find this perhaps bad taste for for net.kids,
but here goes.

I'm first generation German Catholic my wife second generation Irish
Catholic. I am not circumsized and don't think anyone should be.

I have two boys aged 7 and 6 (also a girl, but that's another matter).
At the time of our first boy's birth my wife had read all the available
info on the big C and there was still some remanents of the incorrect
theory that non-C means unclean. Perhaps in the Pacific jungles of
World War II that was true (often used as an example), but not today.
There was also circulating at the time an additional incorrect theory
that wives of non-C men are more prone to cancer of the Cervix. That has
since been refuted since the study was based in several European countries
where there are many non-C men, but also women with poor health care, and
the researcher did not account for other factors. My wife felt strongly
enough at the time to strongly push for the big-C. I was so happy at the
time I agreed.

Then came our second boy. By now I heard both the above theories were
hogwash, and had to discuss the matter with my wife's Ob/gyn. He was on the
teaching staff at Yale Medical School, was Jewish and performed C as part
of his hospital duties and as an Merle at his synagogue. I
have the ultimate respect for this man. His recommendation
was that if he were not Jewish he would never do it to
his sons. I did not know what to do. My wife and I were torn. Do we
now have the boys different or multilate them both. Since the large
majority of boys were still having it done I again backed down.

I understand that finally the tide is turning and that more enlightened 
people are willing brave the scorn of the peers by not opting for C. Your
friends and family will say "don't you know it's unclean". Beware.

eve@ssc-bee.UUCP (Michael Eve) (03/22/85)

> THE CIRCUMCISION DECISION
> 
> I would like to hear the pro's and con's of circumcising
> infant boys other than for religious reasons.

A big, local health cooperative here recommends against circumcision
(for those of you who don't know, circumcision is a particularly nasty
form of mutilation inflected upon young boys, invented by ignorant
sheepherders thousands of years ago who never washed themselves).

The coop has a film which they showed to their employees and other interested
people in which an infant is circumcised.  The infant cries a great deal
because the procedure is painful.

The coop recommends against circumcision not because of the pain, but because
the risk of infection as a result of circumcision is far greater than the
risk of health hazards of not being circumcised.  With proper hygiene
(including not trying to retract the foreskin for washing until it is
ready to be retracted), there should be no problems.

-- 
	Mike Eve     Boeing Aerospace, Seattle
	...uw-beaver!ssc-vax!ssc-bee!eve

peg@linus.UUCP (Margaret E. Craft) (03/25/85)

Both HMO's (Health Maintenance Organizations) that I dealt with when making
this decision recommended against it.  The newest studies show that there
are more problems involved in circumsizing than in leaving nature alone.

Everyone I know who has decided YES have admitted that the only rationale
was that son would "look like" father.  Well, adult genitals are so different
from kiddie ones, that I doubt that under-13-year-olds would notice that
detail...

The trend is toward noncircumcision, so the "looking like everyone else"
argument is also beginning to lose validity.  Maybe in 20 years or so
the practise will die a natural death.

rlr@avsdS.UUCP (Rhode L. Roberts) (03/29/85)

> THE CIRCUMCISION DECISION
> 
> I would like to hear the pro's and con's of circumcising
> infant boys other than for religious reasons.

*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***

My wife and I adopded our first boy.  We were at the
Hospital for his birth and took him home right away.
We decided to have him circumcised.  The current thinking
of the medical profession is not to circumcise.
This proved to be painfull for us as the doctor
who did the operation did not believe in it and
did a very poor job, just barely removing anything.
Effectivly, this leaves our child with what appears to
be a mutilated penis.  Our second boy was not operated
on because of the prior experience.  We originally wanted
the children to be circumcised so that they would
be similar to thier father.  This is my second marriage,
for the child that was born during the first marriage, he
was circumcised.  His also was a problem as for some reason
he didn't heal properly and wound up having to be operated
on three times.  Any way I feel that any operation at such
a young age must have some horrible psychological effects.

If you want a good circumcision go to a Rabbi!
(I was raised catholic)

hsc@ahuta.UUCP (h.cohen) (03/30/85)

REFERENCES:  <2298@drutx.UUCP>, <307@ssc-bee.UUCP>

Jews and Moslems, among others, practice ritual circumcision of
male children.  Mike Eve's bombastic reference to "... ignorant
sheepherders who never washed..." is gratuitous anti-Semitism
and extremely offensive.  Of course, it is also totally irrelevant
to the circumcision issue.  My impression is that Mr. Eve finds
circumcision personally, subjectively repellant for esthetic
(or neurotic?) reasons, and that this strong feeling requires
a scapegoat.  Shame on you, Mr. Eve.
Harvey S. Cohen  ahuta!hsc

fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (03/31/85)

In article <ahuta.550> hsc@ahuta.UUCP (h.cohen) writes:
>REFERENCES:  <2298@drutx.UUCP>, <307@ssc-bee.UUCP>
>
>Jews and Moslems, among others, practice ritual circumcision of
>male children.  Mike Eve's bombastic reference to "... ignorant
>sheepherders who never washed..." is gratuitous anti-Semitism
>and extremely offensive.  Of course, it is also totally irrelevant
>to the circumcision issue.  My impression is that Mr. Eve finds
>circumcision personally, subjectively repellant for esthetic
>(or neurotic?) reasons, and that this strong feeling requires
>a scapegoat.  Shame on you, Mr. Eve.
>Harvey S. Cohen  ahuta!hsc

Circumcision probably did not originate among Hebrews.
It is may well have been a practice of many tribes in
that and other areas.  It may or may not have originated
among sheep herders.  Very few of these prehistoric people
enjoyed indoor plumbing, and fewer still attended an
accredited university.  Thus, to call them ignorant sheepherders
who never washed, is at best a reasonable hypothesis,
and at worst a sloppy exaggeration.

Haven't you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf?
Let's save our flames for anti-semites who really mean it.

	Frank Silbermann