arndt@lymph.DEC (06/19/85)
Er, . . . it seems to me that intelligence, whatever it is, surely means the ability to survive in whatever environment one finds oneself. That includes the ability to come to terms with a hard world. Kids are, to use one of my favorate quotes from Calvin (John not Klien), "as rotten as rats" - he was refering of course to Original Sin. Everyone, it seems note the seemingly natural bent toward 'teasing' or cruelty among children. Yes, many kids are 'intelligent' in the sense that they can add and subtract. But we all know examples of the type who can't walk across the street without getting run over. When faced with 'teasing' that goes beyond the bounds of normal childish discourse - repeated daily to the point of emotional upset of the tormented- the 'intelligent' thing for the little person (male or female) to do is smash the tormentor on the side of the head with a heavy history book and kick him/herin the gut on the way down. A few more honest kicks to the head for good measure and they are a long way toward solving the problem. Children understand this type of response from another child. And value it. It's clear, honest and meaningful. Now adults, teachers and well meaning parents get all excited and say stupid things like 'It isn't nice to hit someone' so that little yourick takes an emotional pasting that helps shape his life and the lives of HIS children when all he had to do was a few seconds hard labor to avoid the whole mess. It's likely the two will become fast friends, often for life. A friendship build on mutual respect and understanding that there are limits to the abuse of other persons and a price to pay when one goes too far. It's also a big help to the tormentor and his future victims. Think of that! Now of course I am not saying that that's what adults should do. I'm talking about children not allowing themselves to be victimized. And I'm not talking about really hurting someone so they don't recover. But I AM talking about hurting someone. Somehow the hurt that doen't show is overlooked but to blacken someone's eye is a no no. I'm glad, selfishly, that some misguided parents teach their little children not to defend themselves from physical and emotional attack. It leaves lots of victims for the bullies. Of course I teach my kids that they have a moral obligation to step in on behalf of a victim. But the bullies go for those who give off 'victim' status. Also I think to be on the receiving end of a well thrown punch is an experience worth having. Sort of fills in an area of perspective to taste one's own blood in one's mouth. And of course the thrill of a good solid smash, I'm reliving my former glory days in grade school, delievered to the head or mid section of a bigger guy so he goes down is of primordial stature. Children understand glory. The finer things of life. That some things ARE worth fighting, with everything you have, for. I believe children justly scorn the 'victim' who could but won't defend him/herself. Realize I'm talking about the situation that becomes unbearable where a child's self image and life can be ruined or warped by being attacked. Granted there is the very real possibility they won't win the fight - if they think so they should strike first and if not from actually behind at least from the side. ha But children respect other children who stand up for themselves. And as I say there are enough 'victims' around to fill in the day of the bullies so that they will most likely go on to another than risk a book to the side of the head, etc. Of course there are situations and situations. Let me give you one from Ken's scrapbook of memories. Another guy in my grade, 6 or 7 or 8, I forget which, had it in for me. He did't see my greatness poor guy. Anyway he managed to best me every time. I got tired of the taste of my own blood in my mouth so during a lull in the battle when we were friends I got my revenge in spades. It happened like this. We were walking home from school together when we met these other guys who wanted to pick a fight. This guy asks me if I thought he could take a big guy on the other side and of course I said "Sure, piece of cake. Here, let me hold your books." Now I was positive this big kid was going to wipe up the sidewalk with him. And he DID! It was great. I kept yelling to him to get up and take some more shots to the head - and he DID. I helped him home. Best walk home I ever had. So there are ways and there are ways. All part of 'intelligence', eh? Just remember, if your kid fights once he may never have to fight again. If he refuses to fight he may be in many more. And of course by 'fight' I don't mean physically all the time. One can 'tease' back, take it like a 'man' by laughing at the joke or show it has no effect. My money says that the psychologist someone quoted to the effect that the reason children tease is because they actually feel inferior and feel better about themselves by putting someone else down was beat up a lot as a kid. That may be only one of mamy reasons. I think it's 'inferior' to let yourself suffer abuse, physical or verbal. Except here on the net, so fire away. I won't tolerate bullies or 'victims' among my children. Careful now. I want my sons to be sensitive. Just not afraid to the point of becoming unbalanced. But be able to come to terms with the horror that is abroad in our world. The lessons start on the school yard. It's a matter of degree. Fear is healthy in some measure. Only the stupid are unafraid. Only the 'victims' are mastered by fear. Gee, this is getting pretty smarmy, ain't it? I'll stop now. Regards, Ken Arndt
mark@tove.UUCP (Mark Weiser) (06/24/85)
In article <2778@decwrl.UUCP> arndt@lymph.DEC writes: > >...Kids are, to use one of my >favorate quotes from Calvin (John not Klien), "as rotten as rats" - he was >refering of course to Original Sin. Everyone, it seems note the seemingly >natural bent toward 'teasing' or cruelty among children... Not everyone. Not me, and not lots of other people. All the cruelty I see from kids has been taught to them by a cruel world. I believe kids naturally like each other, and my own kids and those of my friends support that. There is NO solid evidence for Ken's view above, and I for one think exactly the opposite. -mark -- Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland Phone: +1-301-454-7817 CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!mark USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (06/26/85)
In article <2778@decwrl.UUCP> arndt@lymph.DEC writes: > >Er, . . . it seems to me that intelligence, whatever it is, surely means the >ability to survive in whatever environment one finds oneself. That includes >the ability to come to terms with a hard world. By this definition cockroaches and rats are among the most intelligent creatures on earth. -- -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) (07/01/85)
In article <503@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes: >In article <2778@decwrl.UUCP> arndt@lymph.DEC writes: >> >>Er, . . . it seems to me that intelligence, whatever it is, surely means the >>ability to survive in whatever environment one finds oneself. That includes >>the ability to come to terms with a hard world. > >By this definition cockroaches and rats are among the most intelligent >creatures on earth. >-- >The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) How about if we expand the arndt definition to say that intelligence means the ability to survive by the manipulation of the environment. Thus, examining the cockroach and rat shows them to be exempt. The lower primates, however, begin to demonstrate intelligence. Even dogs and cats do manipulate their environment to a certain degree. Being both a kid-lover and sf-lover, I've seen and heard this issue discussed and defined in many ways. Clearly, studies have shown that intelligence is relative to the culture and society. Ghetto blacks, desert nomads, and city whites all demonstrate intelligence in different ways. The key word is "demonstrate". -- *** * Steven List @ Benetics Corporation, Mt. View, CA * Just part of the stock at "Uncle Bene's Farm" * {cdp,greipa,idi,oliveb,sun,tolerant}!bene!luke!steven ***