jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (01/01/70)
> >There is one fact that should be noted - the consistent use > >of only the left hand for all purposes is actually rarer than > >people here might think. > This is probably true, but I think could be more easily attributed to > environmental factors (let's face it, we're living in a rightie's world) > than developmental/genetic ones. The fact that there ARE consistent "total" > righties indicates that there's a lot less pressure on them to use their left > hands than there is on lefties to use their right. There have been studies which show that left-handed people are more flexible and quicker to adapt to change, and that the brain-function divisions are less well-defined for lefties. That is, the left-brain/ right-brain business actually doens't apply very well to left-handers, who tend to distribute functions more widely over different parts of the brain. I don't know if lefties are born this way or if we get that way as a result of coping with a right-handed world. -- jcpatilla "The bland leadeth the bland and they both shall fall into the kitsch."
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (08/11/85)
References: A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. The boy is generally obediant, so he uses his right hand for printing his name and coloring, though his coordination is much worse than other children his age. Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, and his social self-confidence? Frank Silbermann
mwg@petrus.UUCP (Mark Garrett) (08/13/85)
++ > ...Do any readers > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this > affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, > and his social self-confidence? > Frank Silbermann Back in the "old days" in this country, they taught children to be right handed. My father was born left-handed, and then re-trained. He now eats with his left hand, writes with his right, and claims that the attempt at righting his dexterity has ruined his sense of direction (which is lousy; mine is good). He is convinced that this is a usless if not harmful thing to do to children. -Mark Garrett
sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) (08/13/85)
> > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. > > > Frank Silbermann My God! I thought that sort of thing went out long ago. I know that long ago (the Victorian Era) left handedness was considered evil. (The French word for left comes from the same Latin root that we get the word sinister). Children used to be forced to use their right hands. I have heard that this is quite detremental. I think it's terrible to punish a child for trying do something the way his body is telling him to. I think it would do a lot more harm than good to force a child to be right-handed when his natural inclination is toward left-handedness. What's so wrong with being left-handed? Some of my best friends are left-handed. They don't seem to have any problems with it. -- Sarah E. Dugan "One Day At A Time" ########################################################################### # AT&T Bell Labs IH 1D-408 The Forest (home) # # Naperville-Wheaton Rd. 1353 Crab Apple Court Apt. 101 # # Naperville, Illinois 60566 Naperville, Illinois 60540 # # (312) 979 - 5545 (312) 355 - 0445 # ############################################################################
cher@ihlpm.UUCP (cherepov) (08/14/85)
> Back in the "old days" in this country, they taught children to be > right handed. My father was born left-handed, and then re-trained. > He now eats with his left hand, writes with his right, and claims > that the attempt at righting his dexterity has ruined his sense of > direction (which is lousy; mine is good). He is convinced that this > is a usless if not harmful thing to do to children. > -Mark Garrett I am one of such "converts" (not-so-old days in another country). My opinion is that it can improve aptitude for some sports (wrestling, skiing) where ambidexterity is more of a plus, but hurt you in tennis,... I play left-handed, but used to be about equally good (poor?) off both sides in badminton. Should be damaging for guitar-playing. I also have very poor sense of direction and often say "right" while distinctly having in mind "left". Re-training is clearly a very ill-concieved policy, however I can not give any references. Just the idea of creating an invisible handicap for the sake of conforming does not seem reasonable. Mike Cherepov
sct@lanl.ARPA (08/14/85)
> > > > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." > > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. > > > > > > Frank Silbermann > > My God! I thought that sort of thing went out long ago. I know that long ago > (the Victorian Era) left handedness was considered evil. (The French word for > left comes from the same Latin root that we get the word sinister). Children > used to be forced to use their right hands. I have heard that this is quite > detremental. I think it's terrible to punish a child for trying do something > the way his body is telling him to. I think it would do a lot more harm than > good to force a child to be right-handed when his natural inclination is > toward left-handedness. What's so wrong with being left-handed? Some of my > best friends are left-handed. They don't seem to have any problems with it. I have a friend who is left handed and he once told me that, as a child, his parents tried to get him to be right-handed. During the process he started to stutter and kept stuttering until he went back to being left handed. My mother in law was forced to write right-handed and, although she doesn't stutter, her penmanship is terrible. I cannot read it so my wife has to decipher it. My son is showing a tendancy to use his left hand and I intend to let him stay that way. There's nothing wrong with being left handed except for having to live in a right handed world. By the way, during the Middle Ages being left handed was considered to be connected with the devil. The word 'sinister' comes from an old French word meaning left handed.
albert@harvard.ARPA (David Albert) (08/14/85)
> > ...Do any readers > > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this > > affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, > > and his social self-confidence? > > Frank Silbermann Changing, or attempting to change, a child's handedness is the priciple cause of childhood stuttering and similar speech impediments. Other problems that come up are writing defects, especially lousy handwriting, and a variety of unrelated problems including bedwetting. Why would anyone today try to force a child to be righthanded? I thought we had progressed beyond that stage. -- David Albert ihnp4!seismo!harvard!albert (albert@harvard.ARPA)
jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) (08/14/85)
> A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. > > Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder > whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? > > Frank Silbermann My parents are both natural leftys (though my brother and I are both naturally right-handed; any geneticists want to explain that one?). My father was allowed to be left-handed; while my mother was switched over as Frank describes above, although her parents began as soon as she could reach for objects. On the positive side, she has beautiful handwriting with either hand, and she is capable of simultaneous mirror writing. On the negative side, she is slightly dyslexic (especially with numbers). I don't think that left-handers (from observing my father and left-handed friends) have enough trouble dealing with a right-handed world to warrant causing any more hemisphere/dominance problems that the child already has. On a related topic, has anyone noted a high correlation between left-handedness and 'intelligence' (as measured/used/defined by schools and so forth)? As I think about it, most of the left-handed people I know are smarter than average. AMBAR Until Aug. 16 --> {*ANYTHING*}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand "I told you when I *MET* you that I was crazy, and you weren't listening!"
andrew@grkermi.UUCP (Andrew W. Rogers) (08/15/85)
> A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. So? A lot of people are left-handed. At one time, I was the only rightie in a 14-person software development group! My wife is left-handed, but her identical twin is right-handed... figure that one out! > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. Bad idea (see below)! Of course, objecting to it would be advocating "permissiveness", wouldn't it? > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to school." He'll have a hell of a lot *more* problems when he goes to school if she insists on forcing him to switch hands! My grandparents did the same thing to my father 60 years ago, and to this day he has trouble telling his left from his right. (It almost cost all three of us our lives when he had to make a quick decision on which way he was supposed to turn while driving in an unfamiliar area and ended up going the wrong way on a divided highway.) > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. Great! Treat your son like a rat in a Skinner box! Why doesn't she just ring a bell when it's time for him to eat, too? > Frank Silbermann Andrew W. Rogers
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (08/15/85)
> A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. > > > Frank Silbermann Tell her to stop! Changing handedness can have VERY SERIOUS side effects in the brain -- specifically, the relationship between right and left halves. My father is an expert in the feild of educating Dyslexics. Dyslexia is a brain-disorder that causes an inability to process letters, numbers and other abstract symbols. Some children are born with it. Einstien, for example, failed math because of it. His theory of relativity, some historians claim, was brought about by an inability to distinguish between left and right. Some children are not born with it, but forcing them to change hands can produce the effect. Left-handers, in general, are more prone to the affliction than right-handers, simply because of the way their brain works. Left alone, they can learn to compensate by themselves. Yet, if they have to deal with the hand-switching, they may not be able to. If you would like some references I could probably get them from my father and either post them or mail them. An aside: as for doing worse in school -- come to an MIT lecture. You'll notice about half the students using their LEFT hands! -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX "I was going to say something really profound, but I forgot what it was." -Rev. Wang Zeep
wcs@ho95e.UUCP (x0705) (08/15/85)
> > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. I really get annoyed at this type of thinking - it says that "different from \"everybody else\"" is inherently bad. So what if the kid is left-handed and other kids aren't? Nothing wrong with that! It reminds me of people who dislike blacks because of cultural traits different from their own, or even because they have different-shaped bodies. Disgusting. Besides, I'm enough of a klutz being naturally right-handed - I can't imagine how clumsy I'd be is I had to do everything with my less-coordinated hand. -- ## Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs
sidney@faron.UUCP (Sidney Markowitz) (08/15/85)
[replace this line with your bug]
The 16 August 85 issue of "Science" has an article titled "The Brain
Connection: The Corpus Callosum is Larger in Left-Handers" on pg 665.
The corpus collosum, the portion of the brain that connects the two
hemispheres, is an average of 11% larger in left-handed and
ambidextrous people than it is in right-handers. What does this mean?
Well, besides the interesting speculations regarding the need for more
cross-hemispheric activity because of less segregation of functions
according to hemisphere, there's the following quote from the article,
discussing possible mechanisms for the difference in size, attributing
it to a *reduction* in the initial number of neurons that occurs in
the righties, but to a lesser degree in the lefties:
Elimination of callosal collaterals has been suggested
to underlie this decrease in fiber number and to be
completed soon after birth. If more fibers do exist in
the larger callosa of mixed-handers, the neuroanatomical
difference between hand-groups may be related at least
in part to axonal elimination, which occurs prior to most
environmental influences.
In other words, handedness appears to be related to details of the
brain structure which are fixed shortly after birth. It doesn't make
much sense to try and train a kid to be a righty.
By the way, a disproportionate number of mathematicians and computer
scientists (especially those that are female) are left-handed, and of
professional musicians (especially the more successful) are
ambidexterous.
Sidney Markowitz
ARPA: sidney@mitre-bedford
UUCP: ...{allegra,decvax,genrad,ihnp4,philabs,security,utzoo}!linus!sidney
--
Sidney Markowitz
ARPA: sidney@mitre-bedford
UUCP: ...{allegra,decvax,genrad,ihnp4,philabs,security,utzoo}!linus!sidneyrdp@teddy.UUCP (08/15/85)
In article <464@petrus.UUCP> mwg@petrus.UUCP (Mark Garrett) writes: >++ >> ...Do any readers >> know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused >> by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this >> affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, >> and his social self-confidence? >> Frank Silbermann > >Back in the "old days" in this country, they taught children to be >right handed. My father was born left-handed, and then re-trained. >He now eats with his left hand, writes with his right, and claims >that the attempt at righting his dexterity has ruined his sense of >direction (which is lousy; mine is good). He is convinced that this >is a usless if not harmful thing to do to children. >-Mark Garrett Holy shit! (excuse me) My older brother was (is?) left handed until the wonderful Catholic school he attended forced (yes, FORCED) him to use his right hand. The result, not diagnosed until many years later was a condition, I believe, referred to as "acordial disrythmia" (I think). He has suffered from a great deal of emotional problems, confusion, etc. Several clinicians have pointed their fingers to the attempt to switch his "handedness".
dr@ski.UUCP (David Robins) (08/15/85)
> ++ > > ...Do any readers > > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this > > affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, > > and his social self-confidence? > > Frank Silbermann > > Back in the "old days" in this country, they taught children to be > right handed. My father was born left-handed, and then re-trained. > He now eats with his left hand, writes with his right, and claims > that the attempt at righting his dexterity has ruined his sense of > direction (which is lousy; mine is good). He is convinced that this > is a usless if not harmful thing to do to children. > -Mark Garrett Another problem said to be associated with changing handedness is STUTTERING. Some of the stuttering textbook draw this association. However, of course, the cause(s) of stuttering have not truly been elucidated... Although this is anecdotal, I am a stutterer of the typical childhood onset type. I began life as a left-hander, and my parents, trying to do the best they could for me, changed me to a right-hander. This was in the early 50's when I was a preschooler.(They didn't do this with my other brothers, one of whom is a left-hander, because of they were then told not to. By the way, I do have excellent sense of direction! -- ==================================================================== David Robins, M.D. Smith-Kettlewell Institute of Visual Sciences 2232 Webster St; San Francisco CA 94115 415/561-1705 {ihnp4,qantel,dual}!ptsfa!ski!dr The opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of the Institute!
rs55611@ihuxk.UUCP (Robert E. Schleicher) (08/15/85)
> References: > > > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she > takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand > "so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." > When he was a toddler, she refused to hand him any candy, toys, > or other objects until he finally reached with his right hand. > > The boy is generally obediant, so he uses his right hand for printing > his name and coloring, though his coordination is much worse than > other children his age. > > Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder > whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this > affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, > and his social self-confidence? > > Frank Silbermann My wife's kindergarten (maybe 1st grade) teacher tried to force her to write with her right hand, even though she was left-handed. This caused all sorts of problems, for the good part of a year, until the teacher was finally convinced to lay off. Although there's no way to prove a connection, there was one very interesting phenomenon that occurred at the same time: my wife started writing letters/short words in "mirror-image". The same teacher was convinced that my wife was learning-disabled, and should be moved to special education. Shortly after being allowed to write with her left hand, the mirror-image problem went away by itself. My wife has been very successful with her education since them (MBA, etc.), and is obviously very thankful that one mis-guided teacher didn't get her slotted for life as someone with a learning problem, when no real problem existed. Bob Schleicher ihuxk!rs55611
andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) (08/15/85)
DON'T try to change the handedness of your children! Such attempts
have been implicated in reading disorders such as dyslexia and in
decreased coordination and manual dexterity. It's been eight years
since my last psych class, so the details are hazy, but it has been
firmly established that trying to change handedness is a very bad thing
to do to a kid.
-=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew) [UUCP]
(orca!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA]bandy@lll-crg.ARPA (Andrew Scott Beals) (08/16/85)
Can you say the number one cause of dyslexia?
!dluoc uoy wenk I
People who try to change other's handedness (whether parents, doctors
or simply people who make #$&*#$*&^#*$^&#$*^# right-handed-only implements
when they could make either-handed-implements just as easily) should be
taken out, drawn, quartered and shot.
southpaw, son of a southpaw (who wrote sdrawkcab until they let him write
left-handed),
andy
--
andy beals, bandy@lll-crg.arpa, {seismo,sun,gymble,mordor,dual}!lll-crg!bandy
she arrives like a limo/smooth and moving/on the prowl through the crowd
to the beat of the city/she glow in the dark/wherever she parks
the concrete crumbles and the night rumbles.../big electric cat...itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) (08/16/85)
In article <127@unc.unc.UUCP> fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) writes: >A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. >His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. ... >his name and coloring, though his coordination is much worse than >other children his age. > >Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder >whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers >know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused >by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this >affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, >and his social self-confidence? First, I wonder if "handedness" is related to which side of the brain is dominant. Since the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, and there are certain attributes associated with the right (and left) side of the brain, mightn't trying to change "handedness" be affected by these attributes? Second, if the child tends to use his left hand, why does she want to change that? What's so special about right handedness? Yes, I like most others am right handed. But my father and one of my sisters are left handed. It doesn't seem to have affected them significantly. Why does your friend want to do this? -- *** * Steven List @ Benetics Corporation, Mt. View, CA * Just part of the stock at "Uncle Bene's Farm" * {cdp,greipa,idi,oliveb,sun,tolerant}!bene!luke!itkin ***
cjdb@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Charles Blair) (08/16/85)
> Changing, or attempting to change, a child's handedness is > the priciple cause of childhood stuttering and similar speech > impediments. Other problems that come up are writing defects, > especially lousy handwriting . . . I had not wanted to comment on this subject, since my opinions are based on observation, rather than on "expert" opinion. But since someone has been bold enough to make the above statement (whether based on observation or "expert" opinion is not clear), I will second it: my mother-in-law has a slight stammer (it surfaces when she is feeling nervous with people) as well as bad handwriting. She is a natural "lefty" who early on was forced to write "righty."
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/16/85)
In article <1149@teddy.UUCP> rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce) writes: >My older brother was (is?) left handed until the wonderful Catholic >school he attended forced (yes, FORCED) him to use his right hand. > >The result, not diagnosed until many years later, was a condition, I >believe, referred to as "acordial disrythmia" (I think). He has suffered >from a great deal of emotional problems, confusion, etc. Several clinicians >have pointed their fingers to the attempt to switch his "handedness". I have heard of this practice before -- Considering the litigious nature of our society, I would expect that there have been lawsuits against the school systems or organizations that so damaged these children. Does anyone have any info on the number and disposition of such lawsuits? Will
stevev@tekchips.UUCP (Steve Vegdahl) (08/17/85)
> Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder > whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers > know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused > by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this > affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, > and his social self-confidence? My grandfather (now 86) was left-handed, but was "forced" to write, etc. with his right hand. I'm not award that he had any particular problems with it (not that he didn't). He seems to be somewhat ambidextrous (sp?). My mom tells stories about him playing tennis in his younger days; he did not have a backhand. Rather, he had TWO forehands, left and right. Steve Vegdahl Computer Research Lab. Tektronix, Inc. Beaverton, Oregon
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/17/85)
In article <127@unc.unc.UUCP> fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) writes: >References: > > >A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. >His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. >She bought him a toy baseball glove for right handers, and when she >takes out the coloring books, she instructs him to use his right hand >"so he'll have fewer problems when he goes to schood." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This seems to be one of the more unfortunate misconceptions that developed over the centuries. The reports on the studies I've seen seem to indicate that in truth more problems are caused by trying to "convert" a left hander into a right-hander. (coordination problems, a certian type of dyslexia, and a host of other things....) There is really nothing wrong with being left handed. Recent studies have been linking it with a higher math aptitude. (It should be noted that left-handedness is generally a male trait (Note: I didn't say that no females are, just that males are more likely to be left handed.) and may indicate more of a right brain orientation (due to the influence of testosterone during brain orientation(?...am not sure if this is the right word...I just moved and my references are in one of those mirad boxes of books somewhere.....). High math ability, musical ability, certian allergy problems, some tendancy towards dyslexia, and asthma all seem to be related to the influence of testosterone on the male system. Anyway....my understanding is that this is a highly discouraged practice!!!!! P.M.Pincha (!bcsaic!pamp)
rs55611@ihuxk.UUCP (Robert E. Schleicher) (08/19/85)
Two areas where being left-handed can be an advantage: 1. Baseball - the proportion of major league baseball players who are left-handed is much higher than the general population, because left-handed people are often an advantage, especially at 1st base pitching, and the need for left-handed batters. 2. Hockey - Normally, a left-handed person is preferred on the left wing Bob Schleicher ihuxk!rs55611 (I know this wasn't too much of a list, but a little thought would probably turn up other examples, as well as some non-sports related examples.)
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/19/85)
In article <317@luke.UUCP> itkin@luke.UUCP (Steven List) writes: > >First, I wonder if "handedness" is related to which side of the brain is >dominant. Since the right side of the brain controls the left side of >the body, and there are certain attributes associated with the right >(and left) side of the brain, mightn't trying to change "handedness" be >affected by these attributes? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes there does seem to be some basis for handedness being related to brain side dominance. There have been some studies released lately that indicate that male-left-handedness may be the result of testoterone influencing brain dominance towards the right side. There have also been links with math apptitude, allergies, myopia, and asthma to this left-handedness. Meaning that there is a trade off in certian cases. (I might be able to dig my references out of my stack of boxes -- but I would suggest checking out Science 84 sometime at the beginning of 1984. Also checkout Science News during the same time period. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Pamela M. Pincha-Wagener (bcsaic!pamp) Boeing has definitely not made me their spokesperson. These are my views, I worked hard for them--Boeing can't have them. ____________________________________________________________________
herbie@watdcsu.UUCP (Herb Chong - DCS) (08/20/85)
i'm a lefty that was "converted" earlier than i can remember. i was a
righty by the time i entered grade 1. i have asked my mother many
times why she did it and have yet to recieve a satisfactory answer. my
youngest brother is a lefty too, but he's half way in between, eating
and writing with his right hand and doing everything else with his
left.
Herb Chong...
I'm user-friendly -- I don't byte, I nybble....
UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!water!watdcsu!herbie
CSNET: herbie%watdcsu@waterloo.csnet
ARPA: herbie%watdcsu%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
NETNORTH, BITNET, EARN: herbie@watdcs, herbie@watdcsu
----------------------------------
>>From: mwg@petrus.UUCP (Mark Garrett)
>He now eats with his left hand, writes with his right, and claims
>that the attempt at righting his dexterity has ruined his sense of
>direction (which is lousy; mine is good).
hmmm. i have a very good sense of direction. it comes from growing up
in the country where there aren't any street signs. i mean here that
i seldom get lost while driving or hiking.
>>From: cher@ihlpm.UUCP (Mike Cherepov)
>I also have very poor sense of direction and often say "right"
>while distinctly having in mind "left".
i do this a lot too. i will point one way when talking and say the
other direction. "i" know what i mean, but i confuse a lot of people.
>>From: jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR)
>On the positive side, she has beautiful handwriting with either
>hand, and she is capable of simultaneous mirror writing. On the negative
>side, she is slightly dyslexic (especially with numbers).
my normal handwriting writing is indecipherable to almost everyone,
including myself, most of the time. that's another one of the many
reasons why i chose a computer related profession. why write when i
can use a word processor? then i have half a chance of understanding
what i wrote. on the other hand, my calligraphy (which is an entirely
different thing from handwriting), is certainly acceptible and i have
had friends admire it.
>On a related topic, has anyone noted a high correlation between left-handedness
>and 'intelligence' (as measured/used/defined by schools and so forth)? As
>I think about it, most of the left-handed people I know are smarter than
>average.
hmmm. maybe i should change back. will that help my IQ any 8-)?
seriously though, i have always been in the "exceptional" student
category and i seem to notice more lefties too. i always thought it
was my imagination.
>>From: albert@harvard.ARPA (David Albert)
>Changing, or attempting to change, a child's handedness is
>the principle cause of childhood stuttering and similar speech
>impediments. Other problems that come up are writing defects,
>especially lousy handwriting, and a variety of unrelated problems
>including bedwetting.
my stuttering is confined to when i'm extremely nervous, but when it
hits, it hits bad. the rest of the time, i keep it under enough control
that people barely notice it. on the other hand, i have this habit of
repeating whole phrases in sentences or transposing them when i'm
talking. that's confusing to people.
>>From: rs55611@ihuxk.UUCP (Robert E. Schleicher)
>Although there's no way to prove a
>connection, there was one very interesting phenomenon that occurred
>at the same time: my wife started writing letters/short words in
>"mirror-image". <...> shortly
>after being allowed to write with her left hand, the mirror-image
>problem went away by itself.
i've always been able to read writing and the printed page upside-down
almost as fast as right side up (i.e. well over 1000 wpm). i wonder if
this is related or not.
>>From: sct@lanl.ARPA
> My son is showing a tendancy to use his left hand and I intend to let
>him stay that way. There's nothing wrong with being left handed except for
>having to live in a right handed world.
it is sometimes very inconvenient. ever had a lefty eat with
chopsticks next to you (if you're a righty)? unless you move FAR
apart, it quickly turns into a fencing match.
>>From: andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner)
>DON'T try to change the handedness of your children! Such attempts
>have been implicated in reading disorders such as dyslexia and in
>decreased coordination and manual dexterity. It's been eight years
>since my last psych class, so the details are hazy, but it has been
>firmly established that trying to change handedness is a very bad thing
>to do to a kid.
does this explain my tennis game? i have an excuse now for all the
terrible playing i've done? seriously, in any sport i've been in (and
there have been quite a few), i've been plagued with erratic control.
some days, i'm incredibly good (not nearly as often as i'd like 8-(),
and some days, i'm terribly bad. most of the time, i'm just bad.
>>From: sidney@faron.UUCP (Sidney Markowitz)
>By the way, a disproportionate number of mathematicians and computer
>scientists (especially those that are female) are left-handed, and of
>professional musicians (especially the more successful) are
>ambidexterous.
i hope that this is a phrophecy of sorts 8-).andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) (08/20/85)
[]
"On a related topic, has anyone noted a high correlation
between left-handedness and 'intelligence' (as
measured/used/defined by schools and so forth)? As I think
about it, most of the left-handed people I know are smarter
than average."
Perhaps there's a bias in your sampling universe.
Most of the people I know, of either handedness, are smarter than
average.
My 15-month-old daughter especially ...
-=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew) [UUCP]
(orca!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA]hav@dual.UUCP (Not Sid Vicious) (08/20/85)
<*munch*>
=> > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand.
=> > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander.
=>
=> I really get annoyed at this type of thinking - it says that
=> "different from \"everybody else\"" is inherently bad. So what if the
=> kid is left-handed and other kids aren't? Nothing wrong with that!
=> It reminds me of people who dislike blacks because of cultural traits
=> different from their own, or even because they have different-shaped
=> bodies. Disgusting.
=>
=> Besides, I'm enough of a klutz being naturally right-handed - I can't
=> imagine how clumsy I'd be is I had to do everything with my
=> less-coordinated hand.
=>
=> ## Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs
Minor flame here: While I wholeheartedly agree with the points Bill makes in
his first paragraph, I take exception to his allusion (not an original idea,
actually . . . in fact, it seems quite popular) that left-handed people are
clumsy. Like my mother and sister, I'm left-handed (my father and brother
are both righties . . . figure that one out). All of us have normal motor
coordination; in fact, my mother and I have both always been very busy in
hand crafts and that sort of thing. The only time I'm abnormally clumsy is
when I'm trying to find my way to the bathroom after too many margaritas. :-)
Helen Anne
{ucbvax,ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,decwrl,unisoft,fortune,sun,nsc}!dual!hav
"J. Frank Parnell."
"Ott . . . Otto."
"Do you ever feel as if your mind had started to erode?"esco@ssc-vax.UUCP (Michael Esco) (08/21/85)
> A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. Mothers and others have been trying to make right-handers out of left- handers for centuries, with moderate success. It really depends on the individual. When I started school in the revolutionary sixties, there was an overreaction to the previous policy of forcing right-handedness on children. Though I was ambidextrous and perfectly happy using either hand, because I could use my left hand teachers tried to make me use it exclusively. While they never whacked me with rulers, they would rush over to take right-handed scissors away from me or move my pencil from right to left. Did it affect my abilities? Perhaps, but the affects were minor compared to breaking my arm later on. If you wish to tell the mother something, my advice is to teach him to eat right-handed and not worry about the rest. Being the only lefty at a dinner table can be a pain in the pwit. Michael Esco
rjl@sftig.UUCP (R.J.Lewis) (08/21/85)
> <*munch*> > > => > A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. > => > His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > => > => I really get annoyed at this type of thinking - it says that > => "different from \"everybody else\"" is inherently bad. So what if the > => kid is left-handed and other kids aren't? Nothing wrong with that! > => It reminds me of people who dislike blacks because of cultural traits > => different from their own, or even because they have different-shaped > => bodies. Disgusting. > => > => Besides, I'm enough of a klutz being naturally right-handed - I can't > => imagine how clumsy I'd be is I had to do everything with my > => less-coordinated hand. > => > => ## Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs > > Minor flame here: While I wholeheartedly agree with the points Bill makes in > his first paragraph, I take exception to his allusion (not an original idea, > actually . . . in fact, it seems quite popular) that left-handed people are > clumsy. Like my mother and sister, I'm left-handed (my father and brother > are both righties . . . figure that one out). All of us have normal motor > coordination; in fact, my mother and I have both always been very busy in > hand crafts and that sort of thing. The only time I'm abnormally clumsy is > when I'm trying to find my way to the bathroom after too many margaritas. :-) > > Helen Anne > > {ucbvax,ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs,decwrl,unisoft,fortune,sun,nsc}!dual!hav > > "J. Frank Parnell." > "Ott . . . Otto." > "Do you ever feel as if your mind had started to erode?" *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Helen Anne, I don't think that Bill is implying that left-handed people are clumsy, he is saying is that it is hard enough being coordinated using whichever hand comes naturally (right or left) but even harder to coordinate using the hand which one would not normally use. (His stmt could apply to either righties or lefties) Reggie [-----------------------------------------------------------------------] Reginald J. Lewis AT&T Information Systems Summit, N.J. {allegra ihnp4}!attunix!rjl
susan@mtuxo.UUCP (s.mcgeorge) (08/21/85)
REFERENCES: <127@unc.unc.UUCP> <1080@ihlpg.UUCP> <165@ho95e.UUCP>, <1082@dual.UUCP>
susan@mtuxo.UUCP (s.mcgeorge) (08/21/85)
REFERENCES: <127@unc.unc.UUCP> <1080@ihlpg.UUCP> <165@ho95e.UUCP>, <1082@dual.UUCP>, <906@mtuxo.UUCP>
bwm@ccice1.UUCP (Bradford W. Miller) (08/22/85)
In article <761@brl-tgr.ARPA> wmartin@brl-bmd.UUCP writes: >In article <1149@teddy.UUCP> rdp@teddy.UUCP (Richard D. Pierce) writes: >>My older brother was (is?) left handed until the wonderful Catholic >>school he attended forced (yes, FORCED) him to use his right hand. More from those wonderful folks who brought us the dark ages..... -- ..[cbrma, ccivax, ccicpg, rayssd, ritcv, rlgvax, rochester]!ccice5!ccice1!bwm
sct@lanl.ARPA (08/22/85)
> > There is really nothing wrong with being left handed. Recent > studies have been linking it with a higher math aptitude. > (It should be noted that left-handedness is generally a > male trait (Note: I didn't say that no females are, just that > males are more likely to be left handed.) and may indicate > more of a right brain orientation (due to the influence of > testosterone during brain orientation(?...am not sure if this is > the right word...I just moved and my references are in one > of those mirad boxes of books somewhere.....). High math ability, > musical ability, certian allergy problems, some tendancy towards > dyslexia, and asthma all seem to be related to the influence > of testosterone on the male system. > > P.M.Pincha > (!bcsaic!pamp) > Two of my sisters are left handed as well as my wife. However my daughter and I are righthanded while my son appears to be left handed (3 yrs old). Steve Tenbrink sct@lanl.arpa
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/22/85)
In article <1679@orca.UUCP> andrew@orca.UUCP (Andrew Klossner) writes: >[] > > "On a related topic, has anyone noted a high correlation > between left-handedness and 'intelligence' (as > measured/used/defined by schools and so forth)? As I think > about it, most of the left-handed people I know are smarter > than average." > >Perhaps there's a bias in your sampling universe. >Most of the people I know, of either handedness, are smarter than >average. >My 15-month-old daughter especially ... > > -=- Andrew Klossner (decvax!tektronix!orca!andrew) [UUCP] > (orca!andrew.tektronix@csnet-relay) [ARPA] Sorry Andy. There is a correspondence according to some recent studies. I will try and post the references next week. I'm still trying to dig the info out of my packed up files.(NOTE the studies don't say that you MUST BE left handed to be intelligent, just that there is a higher number of high intelligent left handers for the norm expected of a left-handed population. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Pamela M.Pincha-Wagener (usual disclaimer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------
kima@pesnta.UUCP (5) (08/22/85)
In article <127@unc.unc.UUCP> fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) writes: > >A friend's preschooler always seemed to prefer using his left hand. >His mother has been trying to change him into a right hander. > >The boy is generally obediant, so he uses his right hand for printing >his name and coloring, though his coordination is much worse than >other children his age. > >Though this attempt to switch hand preference may work, I wonder >whether it might have bad repurcussions later. Do any readers >know of any psychological or social problems that can be caused >by the attempt to change a child's "handedness"? How might this >affect his learning ability in school, his aptitude for sports, >and his social self-confidence? > > Frank Silbermann As I was changed from left-handedness to right-handedness by much the same procedure, I can verify that it may work. (That is, I won't say that all such attempts WILL work.) The person mostly responsible for my change in handedness was my first grade teacher. She would always put the coloring crayons in my right hand even taking them from my left hand. I was too shy to return the crayon to the left hand. Needless to say, I did very poorly in coloring. (For those who may doubt that I was left handed, both of my parents and my older brother can verify that I ate almost exclusively left handed before going to school.) Did the change in handedness affect my psychologically or socially? No! While I may not be the most psychologically sound individual and some might describe me as a social misfit, I don't see any connection at all to the change in my handedness. I am now totally right-handed and have been since second or third grade. My handwriting is atrocious and I print almost exclusively. kima
tewok@gymble.UUCP (Wayne Morrison) (08/23/85)
Another way that left-handedness is an advantage is in sword fighting. Since most of the world is right-handed, it is uncommon for a right- hander to come up against a lefty. This gives those of us of the south-pawed persuasion an extra advantage when it comes to "killing" our opponents. Right-handed swordsmen are usually, from my experience, somewhat confused since the sword swings aren't coming from where they are expecting them and their swings are going where they aren't accustomed to putting them. It must have been even more of a benefit when people were fighting to really kill. Wayne Morrison
peter@baylor.UUCP (Peter da Silva) (08/23/85)
> his first paragraph, I take exception to his allusion (not an original idea, > actually . . . in fact, it seems quite popular) that left-handed people are > clumsy. Like my mother and sister, I'm left-handed (my father and brother > are both righties . . . figure that one out). All of us have normal motor He never said lefties are clumsy. He just said that he would be more clumsy if HE had been forced to use his less-coordinated hand. As a right, that's his left. The subject is leftys forced to use their right hands as kids. This has indeed been shown to lead to clumsiness... but nowhere does it imply southpaws are clumsy. Sinister, maybe. -- Peter (Made in Australia) da Silva UUCP: ...!shell!neuro1!{hyd-ptd,baylor,datafac}!peter MCI: PDASILVA; CIS: 70216,1076
tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) (08/23/85)
Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have a 15 year old who bats left and eats right. He has trouble batting righty, but does everything else from the right just fine, except produce clear legible handwriting. We never encouraged the use of either hand. His 14 year old sister is a lefty in everything, but can do well from the right also. Their 8 year old brother is a righty. Don't know yet how he will bat from the left. When I was in the first grade, the kid next to me was a lefty and the teachers would hound him about using his right hand. I still remember the poor kid crying while he tried to write with his right hand. Even then I felt it was wrong to force him to change. I also remember the poor kid starting to stutter and drool whenever they would get on his case. In my opinion, noone should be forced to change handedness. If they are going to do it, it has to be on their own without outside pressure. I have known people who have done this on their own just to prove to themselves it could be done, but, they were older (over 18). So, mothers, don't let your son grow up to be a cowboy. (Oh, that's another subject.) Let your kids use whatever limb they wish. T. C. Wheeler
stevev@tekchips.UUCP (Steve Vegdahl) (08/23/85)
> (It should be noted that left-handedness is generally a > male trait (Note: I didn't say that no females are, just that > males are more likely to be left handed.) I was not aware of any correlation between sex and handedness. I know that about 10% of the general population is left-handedness. Does anyone have the percentages for males and females independently? Steve Vegdahl Computer Research Lab. Tektronix, Inc. Beaverton, Oregon
dts@gitpyr.UUCP (Danny Sharpe) (08/24/85)
I know someone whose mother attempted to teach him to be LEFT handed.
It seems she was left handed and didn't want to be the only "deviant"
in the family.
-Danny
--
-- CAUTION: WET FLOOR <== Is this a warning or a command? --
Danny Sharpe
School of ICS
Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!dtscarl@aoa.UUCP (Carl Witthoft) (08/27/85)
In article <208@pyuxii.UUCP> tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) writes: >Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have a 15 year old >who bats left and eats right. He has trouble batting righty, but >does everything else from the right just fine, except produce >clear legible handwriting. We never encouraged the use of either >hand. This followup maybe oughta be in sports only, but.. There are plenty of good switch hitters (eg Pete Rose). If you look at the hand position, you'll notice that a lefty hitter has the same setup as a righty rifle shooter or a righty pool player. Also, and more important, a righty hitting lefty (or vice versa) has his strong arm leading the swing, which always helps. Darwin's Dad (Carl Witthoft) ...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!carl @ Adaptive Optics Assoc., 54 Cambridgepark Dr. Cambridge, MA 02140 617-864-0201 "Put me in, Coach. I'm ready to play today. Look at me! I can be centerfield."
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/27/85)
In article <208@pyuxii.UUCP> tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) writes: >Just thought I would throw in my 2 cents. I have a 15 year old >who bats left and eats right. He has trouble batting righty, but >does everything else from the right just fine, except produce >clear legible handwriting. There is one fact that should be noted - the consistent use of only the left hand for all purposes is actually rarer than people here might think. In Sandra F. Witelson's article The brain connection :The Corpus Callosum is larger in Left-Handers (Science,1985,Aug.16,vol.229,no.4714,p.665-668) , she states that in her study of the brains of 42 subjects "from 25 to 65 years at death .... ....27 showed consistent right-hand prefernce and 15 showed mixed-hand preference, the later group showing various combinations of right- and left-hand preferences. Consistent left-hand prefernce is rare, and no consistent left-handers were availabe in this sample." (M.Annett,1967 (Q.J.Exp.Psychol.,vol.19,p.327-343) In Annets classification, --consistent right-handers have only right- and no left-hand preferences: -- consistent left-handers have only left- and no right-hand preferences; -- mixed henders have any other combination, regardless of hand for writing. In large samples, the distributions of consistent right-,mixed-, and consistent left-handers is approximately 66,30, and 4 percent respectively.(Annett,p.343;Witelson,p.667).) (This article by Witelson is quite a good one on the structure of the brain halves connections and handedness.) >We never encouraged the use of either >hand. His 14 year old sister is a lefty in everything, but can >do well from the right also. Their 8 year old brother is a >righty. Don't know yet how he will bat from the left. > >T. C. Wheeler ------------------------------------------------------------------ Pamela M. Pincha-Wagener (bcsaic!pamp) (usual disclaimer) -----------------------------------------------------------------
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/27/85)
In article <30005@lanl.ARPA> sct@lanl.ARPA writes: >> >> (It should be noted that left-handedness is generally a >> male trait (Note: I didn't say that no females are, just that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> males are more likely to be left handed.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The studys I've read indicated this was the case. Notice that I DID NOT say that NO females were left handed, just that the males in that gruop predominate. > > Two of my sisters are left handed as well as my wife. However >my daughter and I are righthanded while my son appears to be left handed >(3 yrs old). >Steve Tenbrink >sct@lanl.arpa (Note: In refernce to a previous posting, I'm not sure whether the studies were concentrating on mixed-handed people (with a predominance for left-handedness) or consistent left-handers (people with no right-handed prefernces -- by far the rarest and smallest group (M.Annett,1967,Q.J.Exp.Psychol.,vol.19,p.343))) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pamela M.Pincha-Wagener (bcsaic!pamp) ------------------------------------------------------------------------
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/27/85)
>>>My older brother was (is?) left handed until the wonderful Catholic >>>school he attended forced (yes, FORCED) him to use his right hand. > >More from those wonderful folks who brought us the dark ages..... >-- >..[cbrma, ccivax, ccicpg, rayssd, ritcv, rlgvax, rochester]!ccice5!ccice1!bwm PLEASE!!!Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Dark ages! It DID NOT Cause the Dark Ages! (Perpetuated it a bit maybe...but it did not start it! The COLLAPSE of the ROMAN EMPIRE did that.) The Church was the few institutions that was able to retain a bit of the knowledge through that time period of what had been known before.(Note I did not say ALL of the knowledge,NOR an unbiased viewpoint. It was just better than nothing.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ P.M.Pincha-Wagener (bscaic!pamp) (usual disclaimer) ------------------------------------------------------------------------
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (08/28/85)
In article <274@gymble.UUCP> tewok@gymble.UUCP (Wayne Morrison) writes: >Another way that left-handedness is an advantage is in sword fighting. >Right-handed swordsmen are usually, from my experience, >somewhat confused since the sword swings aren't coming from where they >are expecting them and their swings are going where they aren't accustomed >to putting them. Being a fencer myself, you are right facing a left-handed swordsman can be a problem. But not as much as you might think. A good swordman (right-handed,that is) learns FAST how to counter a left-handed attack! (This is much easier in current fencing circles since the fighting is limited to a narrow strip. This is a BIG disatvantage to the lefties since they can be crowded to the edge of the strip with their vunerable areas open. Personally I enjoy fighting lefties - they don't think I'll anticipate their style!) The fencers that are REALLY hard to fight are the ambidexterous ones! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- P.M.Pincha-Wagener (bcsaic!pamp) (usual disclaimer) -----------------------------------------------------------------------
grl@hou2e.UUCP (G.LEBLANC) (08/28/85)
Tell your friend that attempts to go against the grain of a child's natural handedness has been shown to cause motor problems such as severe stuttering. It is best to allow a child's natural tendencies to develop without interference. G LeBlanc
lizv@tektools.UUCP (Liz Vaughan) (08/30/85)
>There is one fact that should be noted - the consistent use >of only the left hand for all purposes is actually rarer than >people here might think. This is probably true, but I think could be more easily attributed to environmental factors (let's face it, we're living in a rightie's world) than developmental/genetic ones. The fact that there ARE consistent "total" righties indicates that there's a lot less pressure on them to use their left hands than there is on lefties to use their right. Liz Vaughan {allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax} tektronix!tektools!lizv
jpj@mss.UUCP (J. P. Jenal) (08/31/85)
In article <413@ihlpm.UUCP> cher@ihlpm.UUCP (cherepov) writes: >My opinion is that it can improve >aptitude for some sports (wrestling, skiing) where ambidexterity >is more of a plus, but hurt you in tennis... >Should be damaging for guitar-playing. >I also have very poor sense of direction and often say "right" >while distinctly having in mind "left". >Re-training is clearly a very ill-concieved policy, however >I can not give any references. Just the idea of creating an >invisible handicap for the sake of conforming does not seem reasonable. > Mike Cherepov When I was but a wee lad, my Father found me practicing my penmanship and, deciding that I was doing horribly left-handed, insisted that I should do things the "right" way. Thus I changed to writing right-handed. Needless to say that is how my Father wrote - and did everything else that way as well. I got even though because I persisted in throwing and batting lefty which he could never abide. In the end I have ended up sort of a weird hybrid - Right Handed Activities | Left Handed Activities | Eating | Throwing Writing | Batting Shoot | Bowl Pull a bow | Sex (gotcha! :-) Bottom line - no stuttering, no spatial disorientation, I can still play guitar, even walk and chew gum at the same time. Course I *do* teach high school - maybe I'm more damaged than I realize? Cheers... Jim Jenal (aka ...!scgvaxd!mss!jpj) Mayfield Senior School ( " ...!ihnp4!mss!jpj)
tewok@gymble.UUCP (Wayne Morrison) (09/02/85)
In article <247@bcsaic.UUCP> pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) writes: > >Being a fencer myself, you are right facing a left-handed swordsman >can be a problem. But not as much as you might think. A good swordman >(right-handed,that is) learns FAST how to counter a left-handed attack! >(This is much easier in current fencing circles since the fighting >is limited to a narrow strip. This is a BIG disatvantage to the lefties >since they can be crowded to the edge of the strip with their vunerable >areas open. Personally I enjoy fighting lefties - they don't think I'll >anticipate their style!) The fencers that are REALLY hard to fight are >the ambidexterous ones! > P.M.Pincha-Wagener > (bcsaic!pamp) I have never done any fencing. All of my experience has been with weapons like broadswords, axes, clubs, and spears. I was talking from this type of viewpoint. I have found that most right-handers aren't able to easily cope with a left-handed opponent. It might be true, and apparently is by reading your article, that fencing is the opposite. Maybe sometime I'll get involved in fencing and find that my bonus is now detrimental. Two major differences between fencing and broad-sword fighting are that there usually isn't a strict area limitation and shields are standard equipment. I hope I don't sound like I'm arguing, that isn't something I am interested in doing. If you are interested in discussing it more (again, discussing not arguing), feel free to send me mail. (Maybe we could start a new newsgroup: net.swords :-) -- "I love the feel of plastic. It makes me hot!" - T.J. Tarou Wayne Morrison (301)454-7690 tewok@gymble.ARPA seismo!umcp-cs!tewok
gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett) (09/03/85)
A recent article in "Science News" points out that left-handers
and the abidextrous have a physiological difference in their
brains from right-handers.
The region that connects the two sides of the brain is the
corpus callosum. In left-handers and the ambidextrous, this
region is ~11% larger than that of right-handers'.
It has not been made clear yet *why* the difference in size, but
if it is because of more connections between the two hemispheres
it might be a physiological reason for why lefties and ambis
show more of a sharing of brain function thoughout the hemispheres,
and why lefties are more ambidextrous than righties.
--
Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,cbosgd,hplabs}!amdahl!gamdiegob@cca.UUCP (Diego Gonzalez) (09/04/85)
> > PLEASE!!!Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Dark ages! It DID NOT > Cause the Dark Ages! (Perpetuated it a bit maybe...but it did not > start it! The COLLAPSE of the ROMAN EMPIRE did that.) The Church was > the few institutions that was able to retain a bit of the knowledge > through that time period of what had been known before. (Note I did > not say ALL of the knowledge, NOR an unbiased viewpoint. It was just > better than nothing.) I was pleased to see that something with a greater social bearing fell out of the current discussion. (I am sympathetic toward suffering lefties and agree that greater consideration needs to be lent to the design of commonplace mechanical devices. However, the problems of handwriting cannot be easily addressed; the majority -- a large one in this case -- have already established a pattern (left to right reading) that precludes simple solutions.) Pam's (I think that's right) comment in response to the accusation of the Church touches on something that has affected all of us. That is: to what extent did the Church contribute to the dimness of the "Dark" ages. While a great deal of the fact about that long and mysterious time will never be known, it is without doubt true that Church leaders and clerics consciously controlled and manipulated access to the available information. That this had a marked effect on the shape and tone of society, on the interchange of ideas, and on the common attitudes toward learning in the west is also indisputable. Now my speculation is that the early Church was filled with religious radicals and that such people tend to produce societies that are less flexible, more doctrinaire, and in general prone to lesser social and technoligical advancement. This concept is drawn from the known experiences of Galileo and Copernicus (albeit at a later period). While notable inquisitive minds were at work -- both clerical and lay -- throughout the middle ages, there was a definite discouragement of research into philosophies, arts, and sciences of other cultures. Since a great deal of the mathematics, medical science, and other learning of the "ancients" was recorded in the Middle East when the Roman Empire's borders were at their greatest extent, this information was excluded from western teaching for many, many years. In similar ways, the Church excluded teaching of any information contradictory to its accepted interpretation of Biblical readings. (Not too unlike the "Evolution vs. Creation" arguments of some today.) Motive? Power, of course. From the persecuted minority to the persecuting majority in only a few hundred years. Incredible, but true. Today, they would write a book. And by allying the Church with the feudal nobility (read: today's nobility as well), the clergy became supporters of the status quo. Which included preventing the masses of European people from gaining access to the knowledge (Why couldn't Johnny read then?). Consider also, that for most of the period from A. D. 300 or so until the founding of secular schools (I think around 1000 A. D.) that all of the educated people in Europe were in the clergy and had taken a vow of celibacy. The effect was that the gene pool of the intellectuals was constantly being culled. So I wonder just how innocent the Church was of the darkness of the age during which it flourished in significance as it has in no other. Comments?
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (09/06/85)
In article <12@mss.UUCP> jpj@mss.UUCP (J. P. Jenal) writes: >When I was but a wee lad, my Father found me practicing my penmanship and, >deciding that I was doing horribly left-handed, insisted that I should do >things the "right" way. Thus I changed to writing right-handed. Needless >to say that is how my Father wrote - and did everything else that way as >well. I got even though because I persisted in throwing and batting lefty >which he could never abide. > >In the end I have ended up sort of a weird hybrid - > Right Handed Activities | Left Handed Activities > | > Eating | Throwing > Writing | Batting > Shoot | Bowl > Pull a bow | Sex (gotcha! :-) > >Bottom line - no stuttering, no spatial disorientation, I can still play >guitar, even walk and chew gum at the same time. Course I *do* teach high >school - maybe I'm more damaged than I realize? > Actually this is not so unusual. If you look up Science ,August 16,1985, (v.229,n.4714,p.665-668) S.F.Witelson's The brain connection, you will find that "consistent left-handers" are RARE!("consistent left-handers" are ones who use ONLY their left hand for activities) What is more typically the case is that there is a "mixed-handedness" that is more left-hand oriented. Mind you, handedness is not determined on writing hand alone. Best reference for this is Annett,M.,1967,Q.J.Exp.Psychol.,v.19,p.327-? -This is refernced by Whitelson,and seems to contain the basic statistics for how many,and what constitutes handednes. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Pam Pincha-Wagener (usual disclaimer)
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (09/06/85)
In article <3919@cca.UUCP> diegob@cca.UUCP (Diego Gonzalez) writes: >> >> PLEASE!!!Don't blame the Catholic Church for the Dark ages! It DID NOT >> Cause the Dark Ages! (Perpetuated it a bit maybe...but it did not >> start it! The COLLAPSE of the ROMAN EMPIRE did that.) The Church was >> the few institutions that was able to retain a bit of the knowledge >> through that time period of what had been known before. (Note I did >> not say ALL of the knowledge, NOR an unbiased viewpoint. It was just >> better than nothing.) > >"someting that affects us all.." That is: to what extent did the Church >contribute to the dimness of the "Dark" ages. > While I am interested in this particular subject, and agree it is worth some discussion, I'm not sure this is the right place to do so. All I wanted to point out was that the Church DIDN'T start the Middle Ages. Now ,as to where's the best place to discuss this -- any suggestions? Pam Pincha-Wagener
smkindersley@water.UUCP (sumo kindersley) (09/08/85)
> > So I wonder just how innocent the Church was of the darkness of the > age during which it flourished in significance as it has in no other. > Comments? you are in the wrong newsgroup.