todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) (08/28/85)
WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? I have tried to co-raise my son to be sensible and prudent. I have tried to teach him that the value of something may not be coincident with a price tag, or may not even be monetary. So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? He insists on "Wrangler" brand jeans, because "Dad, you can do adventure in them." I've tried reasoning with him, but he admits that even if I could prove that adventure is, in fact, possible in generic clothing, he would prefer the "Wrangler" brand. I didn't shop at thrift shops during my youth and adolesence (even now on occaision) just to raise a budding Yuppie! Is it peer influence? Is heit succombing to Madison Avenue hype? Is it only a matter of time before he tells me to get my hair cut and buy a BMW? What if all this leads to him becoming...>GASP< a Republican?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! HELP! Where have I erred as a parent? Has anyone out there successfully weaned their kids from the brands the other kids wear? If so, was said kid ostracized by said peers? I need ammunition fast, the battlelines are drawn. Do I have a chance? If he asks for Calvin Klein or Jordache designer clothes, I'm committing suicide!!! ||||||| || || [ O-O ] Todd Jones \ ^ / {decvax,akgua}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!todd | ~ | |___| SCI Systems Inc. doesn't necessarily agree with Todd.
debbiem@rruxe.UUCP (D. McBurnett) (08/29/85)
>So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? >Is it peer influence? Is heit succombing to Madison Avenue >hype? Is it only a matter of time before he tells me to >get my hair cut and buy a BMW? What if all this leads to >him becoming...>GASP< a Republican?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! >HELP! Where have I erred as a parent? Most children exhibit brand loyalties; I'm surprised that your son hasn't sooner than this. It is partly peer influence (not necessarily regarding the particular brand or item, just the concept of brand loyalty is reinforced by peers. Yes it is a lot of madison avenue hype. Yes he will probably tell you eventually to cut your hair (but he will probably suggest you get HIM the BMW). No odds on whether he'll become a Republican. You miss the point, though, I think. Brand loyalty is a fine thing -- when you are spending your own money. If I am the one spending the money, I will buy what I determine to be a good value. If the Wranglers are priced competitively, I see no harm in buying them for the child. If they are not, he's out of luck and it's just too bad. Your job as a parent is to determine what is the best use of your income. A family is not a democracy. My kids don't get a vote. They can express their feelings and I take those feelings into account. I try to avoid being arbitrary, but when we hit my bottom line, that's it. Ome solution we employ to resolve this problem is to tell our kids that if they want something like this that doesn't fit our normal spending criteria, they can specify it on their Christmas and birthday lists. If the really want it, they'll agree to this, and be happy with the gift if they get it. Debbie McBurnett rruxe!debbiem
gdvsmit@watrose.UUCP (Riel Smit) (08/29/85)
In article <281@rruxe.UUCP> debbiem@rruxe.UUCP (D. McBurnett) writes: >>So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? > >Most children exhibit brand loyalties; I agree. I remember when I was a kid, oh, about 5 or 6 years old, growing up in Malawi far from a town, let alone a city (and remember this was "dark Africa"), my (black) bosom buddy Baba and I did not believe that there was a better car in the world than a Chev, nor a worst car than a Ford. (My parents had neither, his did not even have a car). Now I probably told Baba what I thought about a Chev and a Ford, but where did I get it? I was not in school yet and we've been living out in the "bundus" (wilds) ever since I was born! And why a Chev? I am not an American (or Canadian) and Malawi (Nyassaland) was a Brittish Protectorate at the time, so it should have been a Land Rover!
tron@fluke.UUCP (Peter Barbee) (08/29/85)
In article <365@scirtp.UUCP> todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) writes: >WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? > >So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? >He insists on "Wrangler" brand jeans, because "Dad, you >can do adventure in them." I've tried reasoning with him, We have a similar, but different (surprising, eh), "problem" at our house. Our 4 1/2 year old daughter insists that little girls wear dresses. This is despite a *very* concerted effort on her parents part not to do any sexual conditioning (we read several 'How to Raise your child in a non-sexist enviroment' books and tried to follow their advice). This is not a big problem, we rarely make any mention of it to her - except when wearing pants is truly preferrable, thank goodness she feels any type of shorts are acceptable |-). Katie also plays a lot with "female paraphanelia" (purses, combs & mirrors) and loves to play dress-up. We are quite surprised by all of this, and are wondering why. Of course we want a nice concise explanation |-). I think that one major factor is that Katie's mom and I are no longer married, and this is one of her compensatory behaviours. Any thoughts? Peter B
charliem@shark.UUCP (Charlie Mills) (08/30/85)
In article <365@scirtp.UUCP> todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) writes: >WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? > >I have tried to co-raise my son to be sensible and prudent. >I have tried to teach him that the value of something may >not be coincident with a price tag, or may not even be >monetary. > >So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? >He insists on "Wrangler" brand jeans, because "Dad, you >can do adventure in them." ... We have had a similar experience with our 5-year-old daughter. Not so much concerning brands, but taste in clothes in general. Both parents are stanch ex-beatniks, not to say slobs. For at least the last two years, the child will wear nothing but patent leather shoes, frilly dresses, shirts with puffy sleeves, ribbons, bows, etc. Pink is her favorite color. She won't touch the fine overalls, sweat suits, running shoes, etc., that we provide. Now we don't have a TV, and most of our/her friends are poor hippies like us. Where did she find out about this stuff? I have been forced to the conclusion that she simply has her own taste. And, after thinking about it, I realized that's wonderful, I don't have to worry about warping her to my own wierdness, or trying to teach her to think for herself. -- Charlie Mills UUCP: ..{ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!shark!charliem CSNET: shark!charliem@tektronix ARPA: shark!charliem.tektronix@rand-relay USMail: M/S 61-277 Tektronix, Inc. P.O. Box 1000 Wilsonville, OR 97070
mcal@ihuxb.UUCP (Mike Clifford) (08/30/85)
> WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? > So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? > He insists on "Wrangler" brand jeans, because "Dad, you > can do adventure in them." I've tried reasoning with him, > but he admits that even if I could prove that adventure > is, in fact, possible in generic clothing, he would prefer > the "Wrangler" brand. > Is it peer influence? Is heit succombing to Madison Avenue > hype? Is it only a matter of time before he tells me to > get my hair cut and buy a BMW? What if all this leads to > him becoming...>GASP< a Republican?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! > > HELP! Where have I erred as a parent? Has anyone out there > successfully weaned their kids from the brands the other > kids wear? If so, was said kid ostracized by said peers? > I need ammunition fast, the battlelines are drawn. Do I > have a chance? I think your child is watching too much TV (esp. advertising). Mike Clifford > Todd Jones
sed408@ihlpg.UUCP (s. dugan) (08/30/85)
> WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? > > (story about Todd's kid (age 4) insisting on brand-name clothes) > (also fears about said kid becomming a (GASP) YUPPIE!!!) > > > I wonder how much your kid watches TV. How else does he get exposed to the "Madison Avenue Hype"? My daughter has yet to pull that kind of stuff on me. She almost never sees comercial TV. The only things she's picked up on are Care Bears and (YUCK) Cabbage Patch Dolls. Some of the kids at school (Day Care) have them. My daughter, Anne, age 3 1/2 hasn't actually asked to have any of these, but she just points them out when we're in a store: "Look, Mummy, there's a Care Bear!" I'm not sure whether it's just that she's not getting much peer pressure at her Day Care, or because she just doesn't get exposed to the stupid comercials. Either way, I count my blessings! I know, however, that it's bound to come up sooner or later. Good luck! -- Sarah E. Dugan "Thank God It's Friday." ########################################################################### # AT&T Bell Labs IH 1D-408 The Forest (home) # # Naperville-Wheaton Rd. 1353 Crab Apple Court Apt. 101 # # Naperville, Illinois 60566 Naperville, Illinois 60540 # # (312) 979 - 5545 (312) 355 - 0445 # ###########################################################################
benson@dcdwest.UUCP (Peter Benson) (08/31/85)
Scott's 4-year old demands Wrangler's and he's worried about
Calvin Klein's and Jordache. My solution, when my daughters
became teen-agers, was to give them an allowance and let them
buy what they want. This worked and ended what seemed to be
the beginning of a lot of acrimony. The allowance was
extended to shoes after a tussle over high heels. Four years
old may be too young to let your son decide what to wear, but:
1. as long as the kids are warm and dry and decent,
2. it's their body to display.
3. you, of course, retain the right to decide how much money you
are willing to lay out, but not on a purchase-by-purchase
basis.
It may not work for you, but it did for us.
--
_
Peter Benson | ITT Defense Communications Division
(619)578-3080 | 10060 Carroll Canyon Road
decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!benson | San Diego, CA 92131
ucbvax!sdcsvax!dcdwest!benson | bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (08/31/85)
> You miss the point, though, I think. Brand loyalty is a fine thing > -- when you are spending your own money. If I am the one spending > the money, I will buy what I determine to be a good value. If the Basically I agree > Wranglers are priced competitively, I see no harm in buying them for > the child. If they are not, he's out of luck and it's just too bad. > Your job as a parent is to determine what is the best use of your income. It is not your only job. I consider my primary job is to prepare my children for life after they leave home. If my child wanted Wranglers or anything else for that matter and there wasn't enough money to cover the difference, I would explain that I would pay the price of what I would spend and If they wanted to cover the difference and give up something else to do it, then it is their choice. They learn the value of money and take care of it better. > income. A family is not a democracy. My kids don't get a vote. > They can express their feelings and I take those feelings into > account. I try to avoid being arbitrary, but when we hit my bottom > line, that's it. > > Ome solution we employ to resolve this problem is to tell our kids > that if they want something like this that doesn't fit our normal > spending criteria, they can specify it on their Christmas and > birthday lists. If the really want it, they'll agree to this, and > be happy with the gift if they get it. Kind of takes the suprise out of the gift don't ya think? >=Debbie McBurnett =Bob Nebert
andrew@grkermi.UUCP (Andrew W. Rogers) (09/03/85)
In article <365@scirtp.UUCP> todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) writes: >WHAT'S A FATHER TO DO???????????????????????? > >I have tried to co-raise my son to be sensible and prudent. >I have tried to teach him that the value of something may >not be coincident with a price tag, or may not even be >monetary. Good for you! It's a losing battle in the 80's, though (as I'm sure you're finding out)... >So why is he exhibiting staunch brand loyalties at age 4? >He insists on "Wrangler" brand jeans, because "Dad, you >can do adventure in them." I've tried reasoning with him, >but he admits that even if I could prove that adventure >is, in fact, possible in generic clothing, he would prefer >the "Wrangler" brand. (Disclaimer: I don't have any kids, although I once was one.) I don't think this is anything new. I was pretty much the same way at that age - only I was loyal to products kids obviously never use! My parents tell me that I'd raise hell in the supermarket if they bought any brand of laundry detergent other than Tide! >I didn't shop at thrift shops during my youth and adolesence >(even now on occasion) just to raise a budding Yuppie! Read _Ad Week_ to see what a goldmine kids like yours are, and how actively they're being wooed! "Yuppie Puppies" (gag) is the latest buzzword among the Madison Avenue types, who seem to be taking a double-barreled approach to hawking this crap: Get the kids to want it, and get the parents to feel guilty (or inadequate) unless they buy it. >Is it peer influence? Is he succumbing to Madison Avenue hype? Probably the latter, although don't discount the former (especially with fad items such as Michael Jackson or Cabbage Patch Kids). The market researchers would love to discover the secret of inciting the kind of peer pressure that turns a moderately successful product into a true fad. >Is it only a matter of time before he tells me to >get my hair cut and buy a BMW? This has nothing to do with your question, but I thought someone might find it amusing: Researchers a few years ago asked a Sunday school class to describe the car that God drives. Consensus: God drives a white Ford Thunderbird with CB radio, speakers on the rear deck, and vanity plates reading "GOD". (_AutoWeek_, circa 1981). >What if all this leads to him becoming...>GASP< a Republican?!?!?!?!?!? Ronald Reagan is phenomenally popular among the pre-school and grade-school set. Maybe it's his grandfatherly image (I had a senile grandfather once), or maybe they're confusing him with Ronald McDonald (tip: RMcD makes more sense.) Speaking of Republicans... if they're as "pro-family" as they claim to be, then why are they so vehemently opposed to the efforts of groups such as Action for Children's Television to force advertisers to clean up their act? >If he asks for Calvin Klein or Jordache designer clothes, >I'm committing suicide!!! Today (9/3)'s Boston Globe has an interesting editorial ("Born to shop") on the above subject. Excerpts: "Life has gotten much more compilcated since the designers and the department stores joined forces to raise the 'fashion IQ' - as the advertisers call it. . . . It used to be that children started thinking about clothes at the onset of adolescence. Now, elementary school children, and even pre-schoolers, make demands in store aisles and dressing rooms. These pint-sized shoppers know their brand names and their labels. ...the newfound blurring of generational fashion lines is a distasteful step backward - and an expensive one at that." (The above editorial neglected to state whether or not the Globe would attempt to take the lead in ameliorating this deplorable situation by hereafter refusing to accept such advertising.) :-) AWR
debbiem@rruxe.UUCP (D. McBurnett) (09/05/85)
>> Your job as a parent is to determine what is the best use of your income. >It is not your only job. I consider my primary job is to prepare my >children for life after they leave home. If my child wanted Wranglers or >anything else for that matter and there wasn't enough money to cover the >difference, I would explain that I would pay the price of what I would >spend and If they wanted to cover the difference and give up something >else to do it, then it is their choice. They learn the value of money and >take care of it better. Gracious, I certainly did not mean to imply that determining the best use of your income was a parent's only job. I also clothe my children, feed them, etc. etc. Your approach is an excellent one, and one I have also used upon occasion, although my children are not of ages where they have much in the way of discretionary income with which to do this, and in my opinion it's inappropriate to allow a young child the discretion to give up something he truly needs (like a new pair of shoes to replace the ones with holes in them, so he doesn't catch cold from wet feet) in order to "upgrade" an item. I was merely trying to emphasize who CONTROLS the FAMILY BUDGET. >> Ome solution we employ to resolve this problem is to tell our kids >> that if they want something like this that doesn't fit our normal >> spending criteria, they can specify it on their Christmas and >> birthday lists. If the really want it, they'll agree to this, and >> be happy with the gift if they get it. > >Kind of takes the suprise out of the gift don't ya think? Not necessarily, since there's no guarantee that they will get it just because it has been put on the list; but sometimes it's more important to a child to get something he really likes than to be surprised. And a couple of pair of jeans don't comprise everything that mom and dad would give junior for Christmas -- there would be other gifts that WOULD be surprises, too. My parents used this approach with great success, and our children seem very happy with it. Debbie McBurnett rruxe!debbiem
plw@drutx.UUCP (KerrPL) (09/07/85)
I have been reading a couple of the replies before doing my own reply. Some of these remind me of the differant changes that my daughter has gone through. At age 4 she disliked all jeans--"They are ugly--Why do you always where jeans, Mom?". Her outfits where mostly dresses, slacks, and shorts. Around age 6 cords were alright to wear. When she did begin to wear jeans, they HAD to be Lee's. Nothing else would go on her body. I have another preference for jeans, but she insisted on Lee's. She did want the designer jeans later on, but at the time our budget was real tight. Now, at age 13, the jeans of her choice are 501's. Our budget is still watched (recently buying a new house, drilling for a new well) and she watches for her 501's to go on sale. Most kids do dress according to their peers. If this original boy is only 4, it has a great change on getting worse. The reply of explaining to children that expensive articles are asked for as gifts or helping to chip in by thier allowance does work. Patti Kerr
bobn@bmcg.UUCP (Bob Nebert) (09/09/85)
> >> One solution we employ to resolve this problem is to tell our kids > >> that if they want something like this that doesn't fit our normal > >> spending criteria, they can specify it on their Christmas and > >> birthday lists. If the really want it, they'll agree to this, and > >> be happy with the gift if they get it. > > > >Kind of takes the suprise out of the gift don't ya think? > > Not necessarily, since there's no guarantee that they will get it > just because it has been put on the list; but sometimes it's more > important to a child to get something he really likes than to be > surprised. And a couple of pair of jeans don't comprise everything > that mom and dad would give junior for Christmas -- there would be > other gifts that WOULD be surprises, too. My parents used this > approach with great success, and our children seem very happy with it. > > Debbie McBurnett > rruxe!debbiem I tip my hat to you Debbie. After rereading my original response, your answer makes great sense. Bob Nebert sdcsvax!bmcg!bobn
jp@faron.UUCP (Jeffrey Picciotto) (09/17/85)
> Today (9/3)'s Boston Globe has an interesting editorial ("Born to shop") on > the above subject. Excerpts: > > "...It used to be that children started thinking about clothes at the onset > of adolescence. Now, elementary school children, and even pre-schoolers, > make demands in store aisles and dressing rooms. These pint-sized shoppers > know their brand names and their labels. > > ...the newfound blurring of generational fashion lines is a distasteful step > backward - and an expensive one at that." > > (The above editorial neglected to state whether or not the Globe would > attempt to take the lead in ameliorating this deplorable situation by > hereafter refusing to accept such advertising.) :-) > > AWR Observation: I have lived in a lot of different places (a variety of continents), yet the best dressed people (ie kids <20) that I've seen are in E Boston (a relatively poor area). These kids look good and care about their personal appearance. Offhand, that seems better than having kids walk around in crummy jeans and ragged T-shirts (like me :-)). Of course, how they can afford such nice clothes is beyond me! Jeff Picciotto ...!decvax!linus!faron!jp sdl@mit-oz.arpa id.jeff@mit-xx.arpa Disclaimer: I'm going to be unemplyed so soon, my employer probably already scratched me off the list!!