joan@ISM780.UUCP (09/06/85)
:-(
I've been reading about pregnancy and childbirth for several
months. I have a fair amount of book-knowledge now, but no
people-knowledge. I decided recently that I would like to get
into some kind of a childbirth class (or even beter, an
ongoing discussion group) where I could talk to experienced
people and ask questions.
I've been calling around trying to find such a class. So
far I haven't found anyone who accepts non-pregnant people.
Some of the people I've talked to have been very nice but seem
slightly confused at my request. Others seem to be annoyed,
the implication being that I have no business wanting to study
about childbirth without being pregnant myself.
<sigh> Yet another example of how our society tries to
separate the experience of childbirth from "normal everyday"
life. This attitude does little to remove the ignorance and
fear of childbirth that many people have.
So, there are two things that I'm after:
1) I want to know where a person who is NOT pregnant can
go to learn about childbirth and discuss it with other
people. Either general suggestions or specific names
and places in the Los Angeles area will be greatly
appreciated.
2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we
treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of
us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it
good that most of us have never touched a just-born
baby?
******************************************************************************
Joan "the VMS group is moving mountains" Alexander
Interactive Systems,
Santa Monica, CA
cca!ima!ism780!alexander
decvax!vortex!ism780!alexander
"Opinions expressed herein were not mine originally, but
were forced on me at gunpoint by the Interactive Systems
Corporation"pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) (09/11/85)
I tried to mail this response, but it bounced. So here it is:
Joan, I think the problems you are experiencing stem from
the fact that the desire to learn (and the extent you wish
to persue the knowledge) is rare (and exeptional, in my opinion)
for people not involved in having a child of their own.
If you plan to have any children of your own in the future,
then time may take care of some of your frustration. If
your desires or circumstances prevent this, however maybe
I can offer some suggestions.
1) I want to know where a person who is NOT pregnant can
go to learn about childbirth and discuss it with other
people. Either general suggestions or specific names
and places in the Los Angeles area will be greatly
appreciated.
I don't know of any specific groups. Maybe a school of nursing?
One thing you could do is talk to a couple who has recently had the
experience. Do you know anyone who is going to have a baby soon?
2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we
treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of
us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it
good that most of us have never touched a just-born
baby?
I think that missing these experiences deprives one of something
very valuable. I'm glad I live in a time when I could see my daughter
(and any future children) being born and help in the process. I am
sorry that childbirth is a matter that has become more removed from
the public mind and experience. I think the prevailing view emphasizes
the burden and responsibility of having children for not being able
to express the tremendous joy (even awe) of the experience. A human
life is truly a wonderful being. Each one unique in her abilities,
potential and character. The experince of birth is tremendous. It's
hard to describe the joy and wonder that my wife and I experienced when
we finally got to meet our daugher, for whom we had been waiting nine
months. I guess missing that kind of experience can't help but leave
a hollow spot in our human being.
My wife volunteers and a local Pregnancy Distress Center which provides
help and counselling in alternatives to abortion. We have had two
teenage girls who wanted to place their babies with adoptive parents
stay in our home during the latter part of their pregnancy. My wife
was able to be their Lamaze coach and witness the birth of their
children. If you are interested in providing this kind of help, perhaps
you can get in touch with a similar agency where you live.
Regards,
--
Paul Dubuc cbscc!pmddebbiem@rruxe.UUCP (D. McBurnett) (09/12/85)
> 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we > treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of > us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it > good that most of us have never touched a just-born > baby? If I had observed my two labors as the only examples of what a woman in labor goes through, I may not have ever had children. It depends upon the age of exposure and the kind of exposure, I think. During my second pregnancy, I saw a very good movie that showed 6 different labors, including a Caesarean birth. This might be suitable in a high-school sex-education class, but could be unpleasant and even traumatic for younger children. I can't really favor "sitting in" on a live labor, because they can be so unpredictable, and if things don't go well, very scary. I had to work up my courage for a second pregnancy after my first horrid labor, and hoped my second one would be easier as is frequently the case; alas, it was worse, and I most emphatically will have no more children. I'm glad I've got the two I've got, but I couldn't go through it again. I fail to see what the merit would be in touching a just-born baby that isn't your own. During pregnancy, I had an opportunity to see just-born babies; I didn't feel I missed anything by not touching them. My son also got to tour the nursery area at the hospital before our second child was born. He didn't seem interested in toucing the babies, but was interested in looking at them. He has exhibited only mild interest in touching his baby sister since she has been home (and yes, we are basically a touching, demonstrative family). I think touching and holding babies that are several weeks old is more than adequate to learn what the experience is like. If you are hungrier than that for the touch of a just-born baby, I would say you are in need of one of your own. I DO think that the medical profession has "de-naturalized" the birth experience to a dreadful degree (though they are not ENTIRELY to blame; there was a certain Victorian attitude towards child- bearing for a long long time). I was pretty lucky with my second baby, my obstetricians were very liberal (though not to the extent of having the baby at home -- but in every other way), but some are not. Until recently, the American people have put up with their nonsense without questioning it much; fortunately this is changing and many doctors seem to be responding to it to some extent. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be so with educators. We have shown our son pictures of how the baby grew inside mommy's tummy (while I was pregnant); explained the rudiments of labor and delivery and showed him drawings of that, too; and let him hold the baby while she and I were still in the hospital. He has heard me say that my labor with my daughter was difficult and long, and though I have explained that this is not usual, I have also been candid with him about having any more babies. As he gets older, we will teach him more, so that (we hope) it will not seem quite so out-of-the-ordinary. He seems to accept what we have said, is not disgusted, frightened, or upset in any way. Maybe all parents don't do this (mine certainly didn't, but times were also a lot different when I was growing up), but more and more of my acquaintance seems to be doing so. I think it's very healthy, as long as it is kept matter-of-fact and parents don't go overboard. I think if this were coupled with a similarly healthy approach in the schools, we'd have the fear of and ignorance about childbirth licked for a good long time. Debbie McBurnett rruxe!debbiem
ark@alice.UucP (Andrew Koenig) (09/12/85)
> 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we > treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of > us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it > good that most of us have never touched a just-born > baby? I always figured they tried to keep it quiet because no woman in her right mind would willingly become pregnant if she actually knew what she was in for.
smuga@mtuxo.UUCP (j.smuga) (09/12/85)
> I've been reading about pregnancy and childbirth for several > months. I have a fair amount of book-knowledge now, but no > people-knowledge. I decided recently that I would like to get > into some kind of a childbirth class (or even beter, an > ongoing discussion group) where I could talk to experienced > people and ask questions. Experienced people are all around. They're parents. Surely you know some who would be happy to share their thoughts and experiences with you. (I'd be happy to tell you every detail of mine, but I can't seem to send you mail.) > > 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we > treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of > us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it > good that most of us have never touched a just-born > baby? > Personally, I would not have welcomed onlookers at *my* labor and delivery. For one thing, I was working too hard to be sociable, and besides, I wasn't dressed for company :-). As far as handling the newborn goes, I think most parents are fiercely protective at first, perhaps with reason. Maybe you have to go through the experience to earn the reward. Anyway, I have seen labor and birth on public television (some people aren't shy). Of course, every delivery is unique; mine certainly didn't follow all the rules! > ****************************************************************************** > > Joan "the VMS group is moving mountains" Alexander -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Janet Smuga I've had a great many troubles in my time, ihnp4!mtuxo!smuga and most of them never happened. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) (09/13/85)
> So, there are two things that I'm after: > > 1) I want to know where a person who is NOT pregnant can > go to learn about childbirth and discuss it with other > people. Either general suggestions or specific names > and places in the Los Angeles area will be greatly > appreciated. > > 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we > treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of > us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it > good that most of us have never touched a just-born > baby? > > Joan "the VMS group is moving mountains" Alexander > cca!ima!ism780!alexander > decvax!vortex!ism780!alexander When my wife and I were in a Lamaze class (helpful, but loads of BS) there were several single women who had friends and even volunteers (strangers) as labor partners. Find out about this possibility with local Lamaze or Bradley method classes (call Women's Health Clinics). I guarantee you will find witnesseing a delivery to be, uh... educational. I found witnessing my wife deliver our two children to be the most awe-inspiring experience of my life. I am not the type to video tape or photodocument the experience, but I find my memories are so vivid (and pleasant) that there was no need. I guess conspiracy theorists could make a point of society enforcing sexism by traditionally denying males an opportunity to see an experience that is totally humbling. Love and High Fives, todd jones
inc@fluke.UUCP (Gary Benson) (09/17/85)
>> 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we >> treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of >> us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it >> good that most of us have never touched a just-born >> baby? > I always figured they tried to keep it quiet because no woman > in her right mind would willingly become pregnant if she actually > knew what she was in for. Now what kind of crud is that? My mom was in her right mind, and presumably so was yours -- I know that my mom knew what she was "in for" as you put it. This attitude that chidbearing is some sort of horrendous experience is one of the attitudes that develop when it is hidden. In fact, the exact opposite is true (as far as I can tell, male that I am): childbirth may have pain associated with it, but the joys of motherhood can eclipse the pain. Personally, I feel priveleged to have witnessed a birth, and to have touched a newly born infant. The woman involved very quickly forgot the labor pain, and was in tears of joy over the new life she had brought. Not only that, but having given birth, she now "knew what she was in for", and yet did it a second time! Hardly the thing to expect of one in her "right mind", no? And yet she *is* in her right mind, and your implication that most women are not is insulting and degrading to everyone, yourself included. -- Ensign Benson -Time Cadet- _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-The Digital Circus, Sector R-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
hsc@mtuxo.UUCP (h.cohen) (09/17/85)
Try a letter to the International Childbirth Education Association (ICEA), PO Box 20048, Minneapolis, MN 55420.
stj@calmasd.UUCP (Shirley Joe) (09/18/85)
In article <29700001@ISM780.UUCP> Joan Alexander writes: > > . . . I decided recently that I would like to get > into some kind of a childbirth class (or even beter, an > ongoing discussion group) where I could talk to experienced > people and ask questions. What kind of experienced people are you looking for? Experienced medical people? Or experienced pregnant people? The problem with a non-pregnant person attending a childbirth class is that much of the class is spent is spent learning and doing breathing and prenatal exercises. This kind of detail is only necessary on a need-to-know basis. Another purpose of such a class is to provide moral support to the participants, you know, bound together by a common bond and all that. If you are determined to take a class, you can say that you are in the early stages of pregnancy. They will probably suggest that you wait until the 6th month, though, because you have to keep practicing what you learn, and doing breathing exercises for 8 months or more is not exactly something that most people want to do. > I've been calling around trying to find such a class. So > far I haven't found anyone who accepts non-pregnant people. > Some of the people I've talked to have been very nice but seem > slightly confused at my request. Others seem to be annoyed, > the implication being that I have no business wanting to study > about childbirth without being pregnant myself. I don't know about most classes, but the common bond was especially strong in our class because the instructor was also pregnant. So she was not merely going through the motions. She knew exactly how we felt, and she could really sympathize. Also, most people that take childbirth classes are in the later stages of pregnancy. During this period, most women feel tired, fat, ungainly, achy, and not very attractive. I would have felt threatened by the presence of young, slim, attractive, non-pregnant participants. And especially so because most coaches are husbands who have seen their wives go through this incredible physical and tempermental transformation (Wait a minute! That's not the girl I married!). > <sigh> Yet another example of how our society tries to > separate the experience of childbirth from "normal everyday" > life. This attitude does little to remove the ignorance and > fear of childbirth that many people have. Childbirth is not a "normal everyday event" in life. If it were, I might have chosen to depart this dear earth awhile back (This is your 9th baby? You poor dear!). It is a special time in a woman's life where she has to call up all her strength and courage to do something far beyond the ken of normal everyday living. (Incidentally, sometimes the spouse has to too.) And yes, I think women are very special to be able to deal with it. > 2) I want to know how all of you feel about the way we > treat childbirth in America. Is it good that most of > us have never seen a woman go through labor? Is it > good that most of us have never touched a just-born > baby? Two persons attended the birth of my son (other than the medical staff). They were my husband and a good friend of ours who was a medical student at UCLA (she is now a doctor in the Bay area). It was not an easy labor and delivery. There were complications. I can emphatically say that I would not have wanted anyone else there watching me suffer (except maybe mom). It was already a tough decision to ask Peggy to attend (she is my husband's ex-SO). I certainly would not have wanted any strangers attending or touching my baby. > Joan "the VMS group is moving mountains" Alexander By the way, how many of use have ever seen surgery performed? I understand that quite a few vasectomies are performed every day. :-) -- Spike {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!sdcsvax!calmasd!stj