co@cbscc.UUCP (Corinna Owens) (09/12/85)
> Why make the kid go to bed if he's not tired. When he's tired he'll fall > asleep anyway. Okay, well what to you do about the child who stays up late but then falls asleep in school? -- Corinna Owens [... cbosgd!] cbscc!co
dwl10@amdahl.UUCP (Dave Lowrey) (09/16/85)
> Why make the kid go to bed if he's not tired. When he's tired he'll fall > asleep anyway. > Well, I have tried to keep my mouth shut on this, but I keep getting more upset with every reply, so here goes............... This subject falls under the "If we don't let the kid do whatever s/he wants, s/he will be emotionally scarred for life!" catagory. I am not going to play armchair psychologist here, but time and time again, the "specialists" state that kids need discipline in the home. This makes them feel that the parents care about them. Part of this discipline is a basic schedule of when things are done. Part of this schedule is bedtime. Our four year old son goes to bed at 8:00 PM. If there is a compelling reason to stay up, such as a special TV show, then the rules are bent. There are times that it becomes a bit of a fight to make him stay, but that is usually solved by allowing him to "read" a book in bed. Our 10 week old son is beginning to stay on a schedule also, and he is usually passed out by 9:00. I am not going to pretend that this is all for the child's benefit. My wife and I do appreciate the couple of childless hours this gives us each day. To sum it up. I feel that the children do not have an equal vote in what goes on in our house. We listen to him when he disagrees, but the household isn't a Democracy, more like a Benevolent Dictatorship :-) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Lowrey "To vacillate or not to vacillate, that is the question.... ....or is it?" ...!(<sun,cbosgd,ihnp4}!amdahl!dwl10 [ The opinions expressed <may> be those of the author and not necessarily those of his most eminent employer. ]
sct@lanl.ARPA (09/16/85)
> > Why make the kid go to bed if he's not tired. When he's tired he'll fall > > asleep anyway. > > Okay, well what to you do about the child who stays up late but then > falls asleep in school? I have always felt that kids will always want to stay up later than they should. Dr Spock wrote that small children need 10 to 12 hours of sleep every day. We insist our two are in bed between 7:30 and 8:00 every night even though the other kids in the neighborhood are still outside playing. It's hard to convince them to try to sleep when their friends can be heard outside but in the morning we have no trouble getting the oldest (6 yrs) up and ready for the school bus.
slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (09/24/85)
>How can you justify to a 2.5 year old that he has >to go to bed at 8:00 or 8:15 when his bigger sister, whom he plays >with all day, gets to stay up for one more hour. First, my qualifications: I have 2 children, who are now 12 and 18. I had no problems with bedtimes after a short tussle with each at about the age of your son. It took about a week with each. Currently, the younger one goes to bed at 9:00. The older one is in college and of course is probably staying up all night. She had a bedtime until about her first year of high school. I think at that age there is no justification needed for the difference in times, and probably none could be understood. At that age, explainations just don't work (at least that was my experience). He has a bedtime; he must go to bed then. When he is old enough to understand, then how about the truth: "the younger you are, the more sleep you need." I always used the Dr. Spock book as a justification when the kids got older. In it he gives the number of hours of sleep needed by children at various ages. Before school started we would look up the number of hours for both the girls (they helped me do this when they got older) and figure out bedtimes. That way the youngest (6 years younger than her sister) could see why she had to go to bed earlier. It never hurts to have an outside authority. >In his eyes he is being punished I would think. Don't be so sure. That's how an adult might view it. But children don't always make that leap. They have a great ability to accept things as givens--at least until they get a bit older. > >I put him down, cover him up, ask him if he had a good day, did >he have fun, etc. Generally he wanders down the hall into the >living room and the exercise starts all over again. Usually I >end up saying something like " get up again and its spanking time" > >It ruins the good mood everytime and I feel bad about it. > It sounds to me like you are uncertain about your authority here. Tell yourself that you are right. Be forceful for a bit and you won't worry about it later. There are two practical pieces of advice on this. 1) Perhaps a bit more ritual to bedtime. Read a short story, if you have the time. Perhaps a special treat. We have some friends who always give their 2 year old a popsicle before bedtime. She knows that means bed. 2) He might be trying to get attention. Each time he gets up he gets tucked in again--so he succeeds. Besides, saying "get up again and you get spanked" probably doesn't connect. Children have a great capacity for living in the present. Future actions and their effects have little reality to them. Try this: bedtime is very nice, with lots of ritual. If he gets up, a swat to the behind, and put back into bed. No tucking in (you can always come back in when he's asleep and check the covers.) No explainations and no talking other than "Back to bed". Do not reinforce his behavior by giving him any attention other than that needed to put him where he belongs. You can be firm, with no positive feedback, without being mean. >The sister, age 4.5, sleeps on the couch. She has always slept >on the couch. For some reason she has a fear of her bedroom. >If anybody has any advice on how to make her feel at home in >her room I would listen with all three ears. > You don't mention--is this a private bedroom, or does she share it with the other children? If it is a private bedroom, perhaps it shouldn't be. Maybe have her brother and her share a bedroom for a year or so. Maybe she doesn't want to be alone. Try to find out what that "some reason" is. Perhaps it is correctable. If it is not correctable, or if there really isn't a reason that you can see, I would be firm about it. Explain to her that she is a big girl now (she is old enough for some explanations, whereas the boy is not.) Big girls do not sleep on the couch. Make a production out of graduating her to her room. Perhaps rearrange the room, letting her help. You don't mention your financial situation, but if you can afford it, new sheets in some pattern she likes. At any rate, let her know that you are proud of her for getting old enough to sleep in her room. Then stick to your guns. She will no longer sleep on the couch. Do not allow her to do so--no matter how she pleads, crys and screams. Use the same routine as above with the boy. Try to keep up the carrot and stick together--you are proud of her for sleeping in her room, and you are bigger than she is so she won't sleep on the couch. And now a little on my feelings on raising children--which will probably get me some flames from the net. I think children need to know that there are rules and limits. Later on, when they grow up a bit, they will test those limits and find out what is right for them. But at the ages we are talking about here that does not apply. I see nothing wrong with a swat to the bottom for a small child. It does not hurt, but merely gets their attention. I might add that I very rarely did this after the age of 4 or so, and I don't think I've given a deliberate spanking in my life. I agree with Dr. Spock on this one--people say that you shouldn't spank when you are mad, but you would have to be pretty cold blooded to wait until you aren't and then spank. A swat at the time of offense clears the air for both parent and child. From about 4 to 7, I found children really wanted to do the right thing, and were amenable to reason--IF they had been taught properly during the earlier years. This is also the range of ages where I used standing in the corner (they are old enough to take a longer period of thinking about what they did, and HATE to stand still.) After about 7 or 8, restriction of privileges works quite well. I guess I believe that children can be raised to be philisopically questioning and independant and still be made to follow the rules when young. My mother used to say, when we questioned the rules: "It's my house and I'm bigger than you are." A lot of people on the net shudder and throw up their hands at this--but I think it did me good. I think that children need that--that it is a part of being human to go through a period of having limits put on us. We then go through much the same evolution in our thought that society has--we learn to expand those limits and question them. That's something every child should get the opportunity to do. I know I did. (I turned out REAL weird, according to my parent's beliefs, in religion, politics, sex, philosophy; but I still make sure I get my sleep, and I wear my sweater, and I don't touch hot stoves or chew gum--so I guess Mom did something right. :-)) And my mother was right--it WAS her house. Now I am big and it is MY house. It all balances out. And being a parent is the hardest job in the world--there is no reason to make it tougher by letting children get out of hand. As you point out, you work hard, you deserve your rest as well--for the benefit of both you and your children. -- Sue Brezden Real World: Room 1B17 Net World: ihnp4!drutx!slb AT&T Information Systems 11900 North Pecos Westminster, Co. 80234 (303)538-3829 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your god may be dead, but mine aren't. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
allen@bunker.UUCP (C. Allen Grabert) (09/24/85)
> ... It's hard to convince them to try to sleep when their friends can > be heard outside but in the morning we have no trouble getting the oldest (6 > yrs) up and ready for the school bus. Of course, there's still a slight problem when you have twin six-year-olds who share a bunk bed. I usually have to go in at least once a night and tell them to stop talking and go to sleep. Some mornings they are *most* difficult to get out of bed, but luckily they've always made the school bus on time (sometimes it means Daddy lifting them out of bed and depositing them on the floor). -- Back on the freeway, which is already in progress, Allen Grabert (...ittatc!bunker!allen)
long@oliveb.UUCP (Dave Long) (09/28/85)
In article <5883@cbscc.UUCP> co@cbscc.UUCP (Corinna Owens) writes: > > Why make the kid go to bed if he's not tired. When he's tired he'll fall > > asleep anyway. > > Okay, well what to you do about the child who stays up late but then > falls asleep in school? I don't really know about this situation. I can remember my thoughts about going to bed from as far back as kindergarden and even then I knew that if I didn't get enough sleep I'd be tired, so I went to bed at about 9:00 on school days. Does anyone have any ideas on the differences between people who can reliably choose a bedtime and those who can't? It can't be night vs. day people since I am a night person. Dave Long -- {hplabs,fortune,idi,ihnp4,tolerant,allegra,tymix}!oliveb!long
dave@cylixd.UUCP (Dave Kirby) (10/02/85)
In article <607@oliveb.UUCP> long@oliveb.UUCP (Dave Long) writes: >... as far back as kindergarden I knew that if I >didn't get enough sleep I'd be tired, so I went to bed at about 9:00 on school >days. Does anyone have any ideas on the differences between people who can >reliably choose a bedtime and those who can't? It can't be night vs. day people >since I am a night person. The only idea I can contribute is that I am exactly the opposite, even to this day. I will tend to stay up well past the appropriate bedtime, even knowing full well that I'm going to be tired in the morning. I have always been that way. If I force myself to go to bed at the appropriate hour, I will lie awake for 4 hours, and still get up groggy. Perhaps the difference has to do with one's level of chronic insomnia. Those who have trouble falling asleep at the "right" bedtime will tend to want to stay up at all costs. It's boring lying in bed for four hours with nothing to do but think about what you could be doing if you weren't lying in bed. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Kirby ( ...!ihnp4!akgub!cylixd!dave) (The views expressed herein are the exclusive property of Dave Kirby. Any person, living or dead, found with the same or similar opinions will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of law.)