greg@olivee.UUCP (Greg Paley) (09/28/85)
We are planning (fairly leisurely) a trip to Europe with our kids, probably for summer of 1987 (they'll be 4 and 6). We are planning to fly, via London, to Gothenburg, Sweden where we'll pick up a car. From there we plan to drive to Copenhagen, Odense, through Germany (stay with friends near Munich), onto Vienna, back to Munich, and then to Paris, Calais, ferry to Dover, and then drop off the car in London to have it shipped back, before flying back from there to San Francisco. We plan to take 6-7 weeks altogether. We have Leila Hadley's "Fieldings Guide To Europe with Children" but would be interested in other suggestions for "must see" sights and hotels/inns/private homes that are comfortable for families. We know Southern Germany (the Rhine area and on down) fairly well, and will be able to stay with friends for part of our time there. However, we've never been to Sweden, Denmark, or Germany north of Hannover. We've been to Vienna, but only briefly and weren't too happy with our accommodations there. As for Paris, we've heard good things about the Hotel Place des Vogues, but would like other suggestions. Same applies to London. This is, therefore, actually a request for all kinds of info, and I'd be very grateful for any pieces of info someone might have. I speak fluent German and fairly good French, so for the areas of northern Germany (maybe someplace near, if not in, Hamburg) Vienna, France between Strasbourg and Paris and Paris itself, we'd like to know about comfortable hotels even if no English is spoken there. To us, comfortable means that we'd like our own bath or shower and WC, and that the people be friendly and open to having children stay there. I've heard that private homes are a good bet in Copenhagen - any experiences someone wants to share? We were thinking of hanging around Gothenburg, Sweden for only a day or so (to recover a bit from jet lag before driving off) and then heading on down the southwest coast and ferrying (from Helsingor) to Denmark. Is it reasonable to try to drive Gothenburg -> Copenhagen in one day with kids, or are we better to count on stopping off (maybe someplace like Bastad)? Right now, these are names and routes on maps to us, rather than real places and highways. Plans we have, based on areas we know, for Germany include trying to get a reservation at "Auf Schoenburg" in Oberwesel (on the Rhine, beween Koblenz and Wiesbaden), staying a couple of nights in Rothenburg ob der Taube before going to our friends' house just South of Munich. From there, we plan day-excursions to Ludwig's various castles and to the Zugspitze, near Garmisch- Partenkirchen. We'll probably stop overnight in Salzburg on our way to Vienna, and someplace in upper Styria on our way back. These plans are all very loose now, and we'll gladly modify them if someone knows of a particularly worthwhile place to stay or see in or around any of these areas. By the same token, I'd also be grateful for places people would advise that we AVOID. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, criticisms or comments. - Greg Paley
rchrd@well.UUCP (rchrd = Richard Friedman) (09/30/85)
The biggest mistake you are about to make is that you are
doing too much. Kids dont like to be moved around so much.
Too many changes of environment.
WHen we take our kids (at various ages) we tend to stay in
one or two places and travel in and out from there.
THis gives the kids time to get used to the new place
and to grow some attachment to it. After 2 weeks and 10
diferent hotels/restaurants etc. the kids are reduced to
neurotic rubble and the parents are about to kill.
Take it easy. Do things slowly. Pace yourselves and
plan to do one or two things a day and spend alot of time
with the kids as a family.
Save the trekking for a time when the kids can be left
at home or at camp (stateside with their friends) and
you and spouse can do it at your own pace.
(...just a minor flame... I've seen too many vacations
ruined this way... a trip to europe (or anywhere) with
the kids SHOULD be rewarding for everyone.)
--
[rchrd] = Richard Friedman
Pacific-Sierra Research, 2855 Telegraph #415
Berkeley, CA 94705 (415) 540 5216
UUCP: {dual,hplabs,ptsfa,apple}!well!rchrdgreg@olivee.UUCP (Greg Paley) (10/01/85)
> > The biggest mistake you are about to make is that you are > doing too much. Kids dont like to be moved around so much. > Too many changes of environment. > WHen we take our kids (at various ages) we tend to stay in > one or two places and travel in and out from there. > THis gives the kids time to get used to the new place > and to grow some attachment to it. After 2 weeks and 10 > diferent hotels/restaurants etc. the kids are reduced to > neurotic rubble and the parents are about to kill. > Take it easy. Do things slowly. Pace yourselves and > plan to do one or two things a day and spend alot of time > with the kids as a family. > Save the trekking for a time when the kids can be left > at home or at camp (stateside with their friends) and > you and spouse can do it at your own pace. > (...just a minor flame... I've seen too many vacations > ruined this way... a trip to europe (or anywhere) with > the kids SHOULD be rewarding for everyone.) > > -- > > [rchrd] = Richard Friedman > Pacific-Sierra Research, 2855 Telegraph #415 > Berkeley, CA 94705 (415) 540 5216 > UUCP: {dual,hplabs,ptsfa,apple}!well!rchrd I appreciate the advice and didn't take this as a flame. In planning our trip, we've been concerned about just this. What we want to do is strike a balance so that, on the one hand, we're not dragging ourselves wildly from place to place but, on the other hand, seeing enough to feel we're getting our money's worth out of the flight costs. We've already been to Europe once with the kids - last year, when they were 3 1/2 and 1. At the time, we found that the kids (at least the 3 1/2 year old, the 1 year old didn't seem to care) had already adjusted to what was around and were ready to move on to something else before my wife and I had quite gotten our bearings. Nonetheless, we'll consider your advice seriously. Two points I want to emphasize, though: (1) We will have a full 6-7 weeks to play with. This should allow for a fairly extensive itinerary without forcing us to be on the move every day. Along this line, we will be staying a few weeks with friends south of Munich (in Wolfratshausen, to be specific) where we were last year. From there, it's less than an hour to Garmisch-Partenkirchen, a half an hour to Linderhof, and just about an hour to Fuessen (Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau), which does make several day-excursions feasible in the course of a couple of weeks. (2) At this point, we're trying to gather info along the broadest lines possible. We don't seriously think we'll do everything we have in mind but will, when the time comes for concrete plans and reservations, reduce our plans to what seem to be the best bets. Again, thanks for the advice. - Greg Paley
9234dwz@houxf.UUCP (Nomad # 73299651) (10/01/85)
I somewhat agree with Richard Friedman(sp) in that that's an
awful lot of change of environment until I rechecked the
original posting and noted that you'll be taking 6-7 weeks.
However to cut down on travelling and presuming the major
reason that you're seeing Denmark,Sweden & N. Germany is that
they are on your way whilst heading south. Alternatives include
exploring how much/little more it would cost you to pick up the
car in other cities, Schiphol airport used to be real big on
this several years ago. You could probably offset these added
costs by getting a better rate on your air travel + you've
saved yourselves 350 miles of driving south (including tolls,
ferries and ar least one overnight stay).
Dave Peak
@ ihnp4!hotel!dxp
"All the net's a stage and all the men and women merely ham actors !"
- Rev Peak (apologies to Bill S.)greg@olivee.UUCP (Greg Paley) (10/03/85)
> I somewhat agree with Richard Friedman(sp) in that that's an > awful lot of change of environment until I rechecked the > original posting and noted that you'll be taking 6-7 weeks. > However to cut down on travelling and presuming the major > reason that you're seeing Denmark,Sweden & N. Germany is that > they are on your way whilst heading south. Alternatives include > exploring how much/little more it would cost you to pick up the > car in other cities, Schiphol airport used to be real big on > this several years ago. You could probably offset these added > costs by getting a better rate on your air travel + you've > saved yourselves 350 miles of driving south (including tolls, > ferries and ar least one overnight stay). > > > > Dave Peak > @ ihnp4!hotel!dxp > > "All the net's a stage and all the men and women merely ham actors !" > - Rev Peak (apologies to Bill S.) Thanks for the suggestion. We do, however, really want to see some of the north countries. You're right about questioning the cost difference: to pick up the car in Frankfurt would cost us an extra $300. I'm certain it will cost us a good deal more than that for hotels, meals, gas, etc. to drive down from Gothenburg. However, we've never been in the north and that will be one of the few really new parts of the trip for my wife and I - southern Germany, Vienna, Paris and London will be repeats of old favorites. What we're most likely to knock off of the itinerary is the trip to Vienna. If we do that, we'll make a horseshoe-like loop from Sweden down through Denmark to Southern Germany, across to Paris and then up to London. However, if someone comes up with an absolutely wonderful idea for something to do or see in Vienna or its environs, we may in fact take your suggestion and decide to forget about Scandinavia and northern Germany and go that route instead. - Greg Paley
boren@randvax.UUCP (Pat Boren) (10/08/85)
> > ...However, if someone comes up with an > absolutely wonderful idea for something to do or see in Vienna > or its environs... I just returned from a super trip to Europe, and one of the highlights was Salzburg. This is my first day back on the net, so I'm don't know how old your kids are. But if they know anything about The Sound of Music, then this is the place. We took a bus tour of Salzburg and surrounding areas, and saw all the sites from the movie. The tour had a "surprise" -- a stop at a toboggan run. Touring the salt mines and seeing the marionette puppet shows would be suitable for kids, too. As for Vienna, the Prater amusement park has the world's largest ferris wheel, the Riesenrad (seen in The Third Man Theme movie). And then there's Switzerland, and...and...! Hope I haven't thoroughly confused you. But Salzburg comes with my highest recommendations! And it's only a couple hours from Munich et al. -- Patricia Boren decvax!randvax!boren boren@rand-unix.arpa