dsl@pegasus.UUCP (David S. Levine) (09/11/85)
I have a 6 year old daughter who take piano lessons weekly. If she puts her mind to it she is an excellent player. Practice, however, is a nightmare. Either she totally refuses to practice or she fools around and turns what should be a 20 minute practice session into a two hour ordeal. I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. Thanks David Levine pegasus!dsl
swb@lasspvax.UUCP (Scott Brim) (09/12/85)
In article <2578@pegasus.UUCP> dsl@pegasus.UUCP (David S. Levine) writes: >I have a 6 year old daughter who take piano lessons weekly. >If she puts her mind to it she is an excellent player. >Practice, however, is a nightmare. Either she totally refuses to practice >or she fools around and turns what should be a 20 minute practice session >into a two hour ordeal. > >I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. > My daughter is now 10; piano practice has been a somewhat rocky road but now she's going strong. Our 6-year-old boy is just starting. Here are my thoughts (I'm not an expert, just a parent!). I wouldn't at all say that you should follow these to the letter, but the concepts might be useful. Lots of support, of course. It's her life. Share your enthusiasm for music with her - not in words so much as the pure emotional impassioned enthusiasm when you hear something you like. Very small incremental goals. Things she can accomplish and feel good about, not "ok, the next thing is to learn the left hand for this whole piece, and then you can put both hands together". Dynamics in small sections are good for this. I like giving my kids tiny goals that they can accomplish the very next time they try to play a piece, but which they hadn't thought of before. You have to have an agreement with her teacher about this, and it helps for the parent to be involved in both lessons and practice. (By the way, we used the local Suzuki school for a couple of years -- you might want to check them out. I like their approach). Don't be concerned about how much progress she's making, rather with how well she's grokking the music and the instrument. Leave rate of progress up to her. The goal is to rely more and more on the child's motivation, not the parent's. Finally (and we didn't do this until about a year and a half ago when our daughter was old enough) you might simply lay the responsibility on her. Our daughter knows that if she stops practicing we'll stop lessons - it's completely her choice (of course if she *did* decide to stop we'd express great regret and try to talk her out of it (still leaving the decision up to her)). Now that she is good enough to enjoy playing, she wants to keep going, so she practices. Because it's on her own initiative she enjoys it even more. /Scott Brim
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (09/13/85)
In article <2578@pegasus.UUCP> dsl@pegasus.UUCP (David S. Levine) writes: >I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. My experience motivating people to practice is limited to myself as a child and with band members as a teenager; I hope it helps... I found that people who are genuinely interested in playing music quite often have two motivations: a desire to hear good music and a desire to perform. In the later case, I can't see many young children understanding it because they are often shy (I certainly didn't want anyone to listen to me when I was six!). In the former case, people will practice things they want to hear. When I had to get a band working, I would make sure that each member chose a number to do so that each would have a motivation to practice (ie "I'll practice the song you want to do, if you practice the one I want to do...") When I was little, this would have really worked. It's hard to look at a printed sheet of a Mozart minuet and "see" that is sounds really good without a lot of training. If, however, I had had a chance to HEAR it, I would have liked it and wanted to learn how to play it. The worst stumbling block for me to practice (and still is!) was the first plinking away at the notes and not having it sound like much. If you, or someone who's around, can read and play, perhaps you could try a "if you learn how to play this, it will sound like this <play it>; isn't that nice?" approach. The main drawback (which could have a serious effect) is that your daughter may start playing things by ear rather than reading and not develop good reading skills, but you can discuss that with her teacher. -- Charles Forsythe CSDF@MIT-VAX "What? With her?" -Adam from _The_Book_of_Genesis_
todd@scirtp.UUCP (Todd Jones) (09/13/85)
> I have a 6 year old daughter who take piano lessons weekly. > I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. > > Thanks > David Levine > pegasus!dsl My own four year old is showing a very strong interest in music and I am considering formal lessons, so I have the same concerns you have. I have two suggestions borne out of anecdotal evidence. 1. My parents threatened me,"If you don't practice regularly, you have to stop taking lessons." I liked playing enough so that this worked well into my teenage years whereupon I (naturally) rebelled and stopped practicing the pre- scribed material and started "jamming" on my own. I still play regularly. 2. A friend (and fellow poster) has a 10 year old who has been playing violin for five years now. The kid has a love/ hate relationship with his musical studies. His parents practice right by his side, learning and teaching at the same time. The kid enjoys this approach much more than being sequestered in a room to practice on his own. Suggestion 1 requires a deep enjoyment of playing music in the first place. Suggestion 2 requires time on the part of the parents. One last note: Many (most) of my peers were forced to learn a musical instrument during childhood. As soon as they became teenagers, the first thing they did to exhibit independence was to refuse to practice their instrument (some even destroyed their instruments in open defiance of "martial law"). This is why I suggest either 1 or 2 or a combination. Good Luck! ||||||| || || [ O-O ] Todd Jones \ ^ / {decvax,akgua}!mcnc!rti-sel!scirtp!todd | ~ | |___| SCI Systems Inc. doesn't necessarily agree with Todd.
carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) (09/14/85)
Scott Brim's suggestions are very good. Here are some more: I think that a 6-year-old shouldn't be expected to practice for more than 15 minutes at the most at one sitting, and perhaps for no more than 10 minutes. Longer sessions tend to be experienced as imprisonment. You can increase the periods as they get older. There should be two or three regular practice sessions a day: you can start with 30 minutes a day total and work up to an hour, a good goal for children studying piano. The worst time to expect a kid to practice is right after he or she gets home from school. Practicing is very hard work, or should be, and requires concentration and energy. Put a snack (that won't destroy the instrument, e.g. raisins) on top of the piano so your kid can nibble. One of the main reasons that both children and adults often don't practice is that it is a lonely activity. You can help by being in the vicinity and making encouraging noises from time to time. Don't say, "You made a mistake -- play that over." Of course, it gets pretty frustrating to hear the same mistake 35 times in a row, but if you correct the child, make sure your kid doesn't feel put down and lose confidence in his ability to figure things out for himself. Ask the teacher's advice about how you should comment on the child's playing at home. If the teacher doesn't have any intelligent advice to offer about getting a kid to practice, then you should find another teacher. Sometimes people make the mistake of thinking that any old teacher is good enough for a beginner. But actually this is the most important stage, and an experienced and skillful teacher is well worth the extra money, as long as they know how to teach kids -- which is a very different matter from teaching college students. I was very fortunate in my first teacher, so that playing the piano is now second nature to me. There is a book that I like, *Your Child and the Piano* by Margaret Grant, so you might want to look for that. For a young child, be happy if he or she learns that music is enjoyable and rewarding -- that's the main goal at this stage. The great artists are the ones for whom music-making is a joyful activity and who couldn't live without music. Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes
king@kestrel.ARPA (09/15/85)
In article <2578@pegasus.UUCP>, dsl@pegasus.UUCP (David S. Levine) writes: > I have a 6 year old daughter who take piano lessons weekly. > If she puts her mind to it she is an excellent player. > Practice, however, is a nightmare. Either she totally refuses to practice > or she fools around and turns what should be a 20 minute practice session > into a two hour ordeal. > > I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. > > Thanks > David Levine > pegasus!dsl uh, Dave? Why do you want to "get" your six-year-old to practice? Back off a few months - It'll either come or it wont. Do tell her that she doesn't get lessions if she doesn't practice... -dick
wjr@x.UUCP (Bill Richard) (09/16/85)
<you can't practice anymore> Note: This is STella Calvert, a guest on ...decvax!frog!wjr. Flame me! In article <2578@pegasus.UUCP> dsl@pegasus.UUCP (David S. Levine) writes: >Practice, however, is a nightmare. Either she totally refuses to practice >or she fools around and turns what should be a 20 minute practice session >into a two hour ordeal. > >I would appreciate any ideas on how to motivate her to practice. > I am not a parent, so this may be a lousy idea. However, have you considered telling her she can ONLY practice for 30 minutes a day? At least this eliminates the two hour ordeal and related aversive conditioning. If she's as pig-headed as I was as a kid, it might result in her practicing for hours. (It has been suggested that I haven't out-grown that pig-headedness....) STella Calvert (guest on ...!decvax!frog!wjr) Every man and every woman is a star.
debbiem@rruxe.UUCP (D. McBurnett) (09/16/85)
Ya gotta wanna! I started piano lessons when I was eight, and I didn't much care to practice some days, either. My parents attitute was, "hey, this is not free; if we are going to shell out the bucks, then you'd better practice; if you don't practice, you don't want to learn to play badly enough, and we quit paying." They relied on progress reports from the teacher. Once I realized they were for real, I practiced more diligently, but after a couple of years, I was tired of it and told them so. I took up the piano again a couple of years later under the same system, with a good deal more motivation because of their philosophy and how it had previously worked. One of the requirements of this system is that you leave it strictly up to the child as to when and how she practices. No hovering, no nagging. If you can't stand the sound of the practicing, go work in the basement on something equally noisy, like making bookshelves, or go outside and work on the yard. If your child wishes to learn to play, this approach ought to be motivation enough. If is isn't, I'd guess SHE isn't the one who wants her to be taking the lessons. Debbie McBurnett rruxe!debbiem
carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) (09/16/85)
>I started piano lessons when I was eight, and I didn't much care >to practice some days, either. My parents attitute was, "hey, this >is not free; if we are going to shell out the bucks, then you'd >better practice; if you don't practice, you don't want to learn >to play badly enough, and we quit paying." They relied on progress >reports from the teacher. Once I realized they were for real, I >practiced more diligently, but after a couple of years, I was tired >of it and told them so. I took up the piano again a couple of years >later under the same system, with a good deal more motivation >because of their philosophy and how it had previously worked. Telling a child "no practice, no lessons" may be useful with some children, adolescents in particular, but in many cases I think the result would be that the child loses interest in the lessons. The child must learn that learning to play a musical instrument, like any worthwhile accomplishment, requires a certain amount of work on a regular basis, and parents can help to make that work more rewarding and worthwhile for the child. For example, you can help with scheduling practice times, encouraging your child when he/she gets discouraged, being nearby when the child practices, sharing your love of music, etc. But what do you think would happen if you told a kid who didn't like to do homework, "You must do your homework or you will have to quit school"? A better way is to try to understand his reluctance and see if you can help him find an inner motivation to study. On the other hand, if the child really is not interested at all in music lessons, then the lessons should be stopped. A problem that boys sometimes have is that their peers regard playing an instrument as a "sissy" activity, unless it is a "male" instrument like the trombone. This may not be as much of a problem as formerly, but I'm sure there are some fathers out there who are afraid their boy will turn into a faggot if he plays violin instead of football. I was the first male flutist that my high school band had ever had, and some of the guys regarded me as something of a freak and probably questioned my sexual orientation (in spite of the fact that nearly all top professional flutists have been male). This is another area where you can help your child, if he is afraid of being labeled a sissy (or if your girl wants to play the trumpet), just as you would help a child who was afraid of being labeled a nerd if he studied hard and got good grades. When a young child is taking music lessons, the parents are as important as the teacher. When I taught piano to kids about 6 years old, I ran into some parents whose attitude was, "It's your problem, you're the teacher; we're paying you to teach them to play piano." Their kids never learned anything. Richard Carnes
prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (09/17/85)
[] It just so happens that I have a six year old (Paul) who has been playing organ for about a year now. He is required to put in 20 minutes of practice each night, and there are no games with mom or dad until the practice is complete. The 20 minutes usually ends up being 30, since "time out" for a drink or using the bathroom do not count toward the practice time. Also, he must practice what his lesson is for the next week. After practice is done, he is 'allowed' to play anything he wants. This usually turns out to be a game of "Name That Tune". This can last for up to another 15 or 20 minutes! He plays the whole song, then mom and dad have 5 seconds to name that tune! He will count slowly if he sees we are having trouble with the name... Try the "Name that Tune" trick and you may find that he/she is practicing more than required! Phil Gunsul
prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (09/17/85)
From Todd Jones... >One last note: Many (most) of my peers were forced to learn >a musical instrument during childhood. As soon as they became >teenagers, the first thing they did to exhibit independence >was to refuse to practice their instrument (some even destroyed >their instruments in open defiance of "martial law"). >This is why I suggest either 1 or 2 or a combination. These 'peers' must have turned out to be fine adults... Just one more reason to make me lean in favor of abortion... Phil Gunsul
prg@mgweed.UUCP (Phil Gunsul) (09/17/85)
[] Another thing I did to help my son want to practice was to buy a music compiler for his computer. He will enter his music he is studying that week in his computer and hear what it sounds like. I'm sure it doesn't do much for his 'style' but I can't help thinking it has helped his timing... Phil Gunsul
jennyh@orca.UUCP (Jenny Hecker) (09/17/85)
I'm the youngest of 4 children. My parents pushed the first three to take piano lessons at an early age; they all quit by the time they got to jr. high. When I reached piano lessons age, my parents said, "if and when you **want** lessons, you can have them." I didn't start until I was really interested (about 5th grade), and I kept them up for four years with very little pushing. I'm the only one of my siblings that still plays. ...there's a moral in there somewhere!
ned@scirtp.UUCP (Ned Robie) (09/18/85)
One of the most effective and fruitful methods for a child to learn an instrument is to practice with parents. If the child and parent reserve 30-45 minutes each day to practice together, amazing results can be achieved. My son started playing violin about 5 years ago at age 5. At first we had to move our hand to show him how to move the bow. He didn't seem to have any natural ability. Even his first teacher said (to his second teacher) that she didn't think there was much hope. But he wanted to learn violin and we were determined to make some headway. We spent 30-45 minutes a day practicing together under the teacher's direction. My wife and I didn't actually learn the instrument too, we just acted like tutors during the practices. We quickly began to appreciate why practicing every day can be a drag for kids... after a few months even we were looking for excuses not to do it. But all the sweat (and tears) of previous months kept us going -- and we certainly didn't want to look like quitters in front of our own son. Now, five years later, he is very good for his age. He knows it and is proud of it. He's good enough so that he could do something with it later in life if HE chooses to. We just wanted him to have that choice. We still practice together, and although he'd still rather go outside and play, read a book, or watch TV, he'd never give it up. -- Ned Robie
fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann) (09/18/85)
In article <190@gargoyle.UUCP> carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) writes: > >A problem that boys sometimes have is that their peers regard playing >an instrument as a "sissy" activity, unless it is a "male" instrument >like the trombone. This may not be as much of a problem as formerly, >but I'm sure there are some fathers out there who are afraid their >boy will turn into a faggot if he plays violin instead of football. I don't think these fathers are afraid their sons will become homosexual. They fear that even if their sons develop a heterosexual orientation, that they won't be "manly" enough in other ways. >I was the first male flutist that my high school band had ever had, >and some of the guys regarded me as something of a freak and probably >questioned my sexual orientation (in spite of the fact that nearly >all top professional flutists have been male). We had two male flutists (flautists?) in my high school band. One was a homosexual; the other switched to trombone in the 10th grade. Though most top professional flutists are male, these fathers still question whether most professional flutists are sufficiently macho to serve as desired role models for their sons. >This is another area where you can help your child, if he is afraid >of being labeled a sissy (or if your girl wants to play the trumpet), >just as you would help a child who was afraid of being labeled a nerd >if he studied hard and got good grades. How can you help such a child, other than by moving to a neighborhood that shares your values? If a child grows up without the respect and approval of his peers, he may never have opportunity to develop his leadership skills. This can hurt him no matter what career he chooses. Frank Silbermann
charli@cylixd.UUCP (Charli Phillips) (09/20/85)
>>This is another area where you can help your child, if he is afraid >>of being labeled a sissy (or if your girl wants to play the trumpet), >>just as you would help a child who was afraid of being labeled a nerd >>if he studied hard and got good grades. [Richard Carnes] > >How can you help such a child, other than by moving to a neighborhood >that shares your values? If a child grows up without the respect and >approval of his peers, he may never have opportunity to develop his >leadership skills. This can hurt him no matter what career he chooses. > > Frank Silbermann I have to agree with Richard here. Leadership skills are generally founded in self-respect and self-confidence. A child can develop these without the approval of his peers, if he has the support and approval of his family. (Believe me, I am speaking from first-hand experience.) charli
steph@graffiti.UUCP (stephanie da silva) (09/23/85)
The favorable reactions I received from other people on hearing my playing was always an incentive for me to practice. What I don't understand is, why would you want to force a child onto an instrument? Unless that child shows natural aptitude towards it, or else musical talent runs in your family, I would suggest channeling his energies towards something that he's interested in or shows promise in. Do you know what you get when you "force" a child to take piano lessons? A mediocre piano player.
hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) (10/01/85)
In article <228@graffiti.UUCP> steph@graffiti.UUCP (stephanie da silva) writes: >What I don't understand is, why would you want to force a child onto an >instrument? Unless that child shows natural aptitude towards it, or else >musical talent runs in your family, I would suggest channeling his energies >towards something that he's interested in or shows promise in. > >Do you know what you get when you "force" a child to take piano lessons? > >A mediocre piano player. That's if you and the child are lucky. My parents pressured me into piano and violin lessons as a child (a very musical family, I had a violin in my hands at the age of two (!), piano at four). The result of nearly ten years of childhood violin lessons and a year of piano is I don't play either instrument _at all_. I'm not an unmusical person. I have an excellent ear, and am a better than average guitar player. I haven't picked up a violin in 20 years. If your kids show interest in learning an instrument, by all means encourage them. Praise and reward for doing well, or even trying, are the way to go. _DO NOT_ coerce them into practicing or punish them in any way for not practicing or doing as well as you think they should. If they change their minds and decide they don't want to learn an instrument now, that has to be their decision. Forcing them in any way will only make matters worse. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp(+)TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe
carl@aoa.UUCP (Carl Witthoft) (10/09/85)
I was going to mail this , but it seems there are tons of folks
who ought to read this complaint.
PLEASE, don't post simple responses to queries!!! THe original question,
several weeks back, simply asked for advice on getting a kid to practice.
It's tiring and boring to plow through dozens of similar postings all
of which (with a few decent exceptions) say either "use carrot", "use stick",
or "stay out of it".
If all responses were by mail and the original poster posted a compilation
of said responses, I'd love to see it. As it's been going , I'm
afraid to read this group.
Naturally, if you either agree OR disagree, please MAIL responses. I don't
want to bother others reading this group.
thanks
Darwin's Dad (Carl Witthoft)
...!{decvax,linus,ima,ihnp4}!bbncca!aoa!carl
@ Adaptive Optics Assoc., 54 Cambridgepark Dr.
Cambridge, MA 02140 617-864-0201
" Buffet-Crampon R-13 , VanDoren B-45, and VanDoren Fortes ."