evans@mhuxt.UUCP (crandall) (12/31/85)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** Once again my wife and I have supplied our nieces (ages 6 and 8) with lenses, tools, prisms, and the like and one again we have been told by other relatives that we should stick to more traditional toys (Cabbage Patch dolls and other very sex-rolled objects). Based on an admittedly small sampling it seems like many people who have ended up in technical work remember wonderful mechanical toys, puzzles, and the like. I would like to hear comments (particularly from women) on toys that "made a difference." My wife fondly remembers a small microscope, old clocks (junkers to play with) and tools. I built telescopes and model airplanes. What did you do? What are kids doing today? send me mail and I'll post a summary... Steve Crandall mhuxt!evans
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/09/86)
> Once again my wife and I have supplied our nieces (ages 6 and 8) with lenses, > tools, prisms, and the like and one again we have been told by other > relatives that we should stick to more traditional toys (Cabbage Patch dolls > and other very sex-rolled objects). Based on an admittedly small sampling > it seems like many people who have ended up in technical work remember > wonderful mechanical toys, puzzles, and the like. I would like to hear > comments (particularly from women) on toys that "made a difference." My > wife fondly remembers a small microscope, old clocks (junkers to play with) > and tools. I built telescopes and model airplanes. What did you do? What > are kids doing today? > > send me mail and I'll post a summary... > > Steve Crandall > mhuxt!evans I always liked the simple toys best: jacks, marbles, slinkies, dolls, toy handguns (western style), jigsaw puzzles, books, doctor & nurse kits, "little people" (tiny plastic, wooden and/or porcelin figures of people & animals), legos, lincoln logs, etc. I wanted something on which I could loose my imagination. I don't care much for the "stickers" that are currently popular, and though I think Cabbage Patch dolls aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread, they are a good doll for children in that they are soft (comfortable), a good size for playing, and have a large wardrobe available (its educational from the standpoints of developing a child's dexterity by dressing/undressing the doll and also of invoking the child's imagination). I don't think that toys previous generations viewed as sex roled need be. For example, my 7 year old stepson is extremely fond of stuffed animals, and will happily sit down to a doll tea party with his sisters. He is equally delighted to play with a race cars, trucks, toy guns, trains and other typically "boy" toys. My stepdaughters are the same. In fact, I think Robyn enjoyed my Christmas gift to John, race cars, better than he did. The best toy to get for a child depends on the child's age and likes. Two ten year old girls will not appreciate the same thing equally: one might prefer a book, while the other would prefer a puzzle. You have to consider the child's individual personality, the types of things he enjoys and doesn't care for. If you aren't well acquainted with the child, I think the toys, games and books that have been around for years and years are probably the best choice, simply because thousands of children have had the chance to try them and have liked them enough that they continue in existance (if they weren't liked, they wouldn't sell, and the toy companies would quit making them). I think the toys you mentioned as getting for your nieces sound like fun. You say you were critisized by other relatives; was it because the children didn't play with the things you gave them? Or, was it because they were something the parents didn't want the child to have, either from a safety or a "we don't want to raise our children this way" standpoint? If the relatives who critisized are not the parents, I would ignore their remarks and continue as you have, if the children seem to enjoy your gifts to them. If the children don't, you may want to reconsider your gift choices. I don't believe anyone other than the parents have a right to object to the gifts you choose. For example, many people do not look with favor on toy guns, believing it encourages violence, or at least tolerance of violence. If the parents believe this, you shouldn't get their children toy guns, or the like. Some parents may prefer to raise their children is strictly stereotyped roles, I don't think this is too likely to work as they intend, but they do have a right to rear their children as they choose. There are a lot of toys that are traditionally for both boys and girls, paints, clay, books, board games, etc. These might be happier choices for all concerned if the parents don't want their daughters to play with "boy" toys. -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
lar@inuxc.UUCP (L Reid) (01/10/86)
> *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** > Once again my wife and I have supplied our nieces (ages 6 and 8) with lenses, > tools, prisms, and the like and one again we have been told by other > relatives that we should stick to more traditional toys (Cabbage Patch dolls > and other very sex-rolled objects). Based on an admittedly small sampling > it seems like many people who have ended up in technical work remember > wonderful mechanical toys, puzzles, and the like. I would like to hear > comments (particularly from women) on toys that "made a difference." My > wife fondly remembers a small microscope, old clocks (junkers to play with) > and tools. I built telescopes and model airplanes. What did you do? What > are kids doing today? > > send me mail and I'll post a summary... > > Steve Crandall > mhuxt!evans I was raised in a small town with very traditional ideas. But I got to play with GI Joe dolls, little army men sets, etc. In addition, my dad (who was a TV repairman with his own business), taught me how to fix tv's and let me work with him. I grew up with the attitude that there was nothing I couldn't do if I wanted and to not let anything stop me. My dad also encouraged me to take drafting in high school (girls weren't allowed). My dad had to fight the counselors but I finally was allowed and ended up being assigned to the boys counselor. I ended up in the drafting profession although I have since changed to the computing profession. Laura Reid inuxc!lar
hsu@eneevax.UUCP (Dave Hsu) (01/12/86)
In article <1330@mhuxt.UUCP> evans@mhuxt.UUCP (crandall) writes: >*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** >Once again my wife and I have supplied our nieces (ages 6 and 8) with lenses, >tools, prisms, and the like and one again we have been told by other >relatives that we should stick to more traditional toys (Cabbage Patch dolls >and other very sex-rolled objects). Based on an admittedly small sampling >it seems like many people who have ended up in technical work remember >wonderful mechanical toys, puzzles, and the like. I would like to hear >comments (particularly from women) on toys that "made a difference." My >wife fondly remembers a small microscope, old clocks (junkers to play with) >and tools. I built telescopes and model airplanes. What did you do? What >are kids doing today? > >send me mail and I'll post a summary... > > Steve Crandall Well, being among the younger readers of this group (18, the oldest of 4 about the house) and still having some fascination with toys (please, no shrinks need reply) I'll try to remember now...lemme see... Legos were number one on my list, lincoln logs high up on my friends'. Erector sets never seemed to cut it because, although they were motorized, they were a bear to construct properly. I still have each and every (small) stuffed animal I was ever given, and from the stats, I'd say bears outnumber turtles about 2-1. Also, I disassembled an astronomical number of watches, just to see what made them tick, although I can't admit to ever understanding them. Throw in the requisite Tonka Toys, one I especially remember, a tractor- trailer car carrier with two cars. Giant Tinkertoys always made me want to build a car, even though I paid little attention to real cars. Didn't really get into electronic things until I was 12, when I first got my hands into the school computers (dying OSI Challenger 2's). Learned to enjoy Chess and Go early, although never became any good at either. As for a microscope, well, invariably for every useful slide I made, I produced two useless ones, and broke 4 cover slips to boot, so I can't really say I got too much out of it. On the other hand, Scouting probably represented the best times I'd had up to that time, primarily the weekend hiking overnighters. Almost too much fun in fact; after the first hike, I ignored a pulled tendon in my left foot for almost three days. As an aside, I also watched an almost excessive amount of PBS, shunning the lesser-quality amusement of common cartoons. i.e. I think I saw just about every Sesame Street and Mister Rogers episode shown between '69 and '74 or so, and to date, I still tune in for amusement periodically. There are some things in life which, although you may outgrow their message, remain timeless. Of course, it's a bit late now for your nieces, but other shows such as the late Vision On and Nova gave me lots of insight. Also, around that time I used to read a lot; the three-book set The Answer Book, Answers and More Answers, and Still More Answers probably fed me more knowledge than anything else at the time. My brothers and sister were fed the Childcraft books from the people who publish the World Book Encyclopedia, I'm afraid I can't comment on those since I was pushing 9 with a short stick when my parents sprung for the set :-) What toys would I liked to have had? An Etch-a-Sketch, motorized Lego pieces, one of the old, big, GI Joe's (oops, sexist militaristic toy) and a dog. Well, maybe not the dog. -dave -- David Hsu Communication & Signal Processing Lab, EE Department <disclaimer> University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742 hsu@eneevax.umd.edu {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!eneevax!hsu CF522@UMDD.BITNET "Buckle up." "Hey, let's all be careful out there."
dsi@unccvax.UUCP (01/12/86)
> ... play with GI Joe dolls, little army men sets, etc. In addition, > my dad (who was a TV repairman with his own business), taught me > how to fix tv's and let me work with him. I grew up with the > [attitude that there was nothing I could not do ...] > I went the TV repair route, too; but also spent most of my youth designing and building rather impressive circuitry for one's age. This would include a pirate AM station and innumerable audio amplifiers. As a practicing electrical engineer today, though, I can state that my early electronics self-education has both very good and very bad points. Learning to build amplifiers creatively rather than analytically (let's just take the class "A" bipolar case here) serves one's purposes well when you are 12 or so, but when you do it for a living, it is very easy to succumb to the temptation to tweak your circuits rather than do the correct operating point and stability analyses, etc. Permitting one's child to get too specialized at 12 - 14 (such as building and programming your own pirate AM radio station with 250 watts) will undoubtedly result in problems later, such as stunted social skills development. An obscession with one aspect at an early age can lead to real misery later on for your child. On the other hand, there are very positive benefits for encouraging exploration of "nontraditional" activities for children. While I was learning to be socially stunted, I was also learning invaluable lessons which serve me well in my career today. One major and flagrant shortcoming of electrical engineering education is that there is absolutely zero emphasis placed on using one's subjective facilities to improve behaviour as an electrical engineer. The emphasis is strictly "go no-go" rather than extremely subtle things which can be observed with the senses God gave you. Learning proper motor skills and (if your child is a budding young electrical engineer) how to use and interpret test equipment will serve your younguns very well in real life. Frankly, I don't know how many kids play with electronics hardware any more...we were the last generation (born in ~1960) to really have an opportunity to roast one's fingers on a pair of 6L6GT's. Today's (at least, from the electronics point of view) technical toys are of such a high level of sophistication and delicacy that most kids keep out of the hardware. This is regrettable. (Note that cars have become the same way ... I can't find a high school kid today that did weekend rebuilds like we always did...) The opportunity for expanding a child's mind is certainly there... just introduce these things in moderation, so that your kids don't end up missing out on some of the other skills which can make life that much more enjoyable. David Anthony DataSpan, Inc
pamp@bcsaic.UUCP (pam pincha) (01/13/86)
In article <1169@inuxc.UUCP> lar@inuxc.UUCP (L Reid) writes: >> I would like to hear >> comments (particularly from women) on toys that "made a difference." My >> wife fondly remembers a small microscope, old clocks (junkers to play with) >> and tools. I built telescopes and model airplanes. What did you do? What >> are kids doing today? >> send me mail and I'll post a summary... >> Steve Crandall >> mhuxt!evans >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >I grew up with the >attitude that there was nothing I couldn't do if I wanted and to >not let anything stop me. My dad also encouraged me to take drafting >in high school (girls weren't allowed). My dad had to fight >the counselors but I finally was allowed and ended up being assigned >to the boys counselor. I ended up in the drafting profession although >I have since changed to the computing profession. > >Laura Reid >inuxc!lar -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Funny that the above example should show up. I was brought up under similar circumstances -- attitude wise -- with the exception that it was reinforced by the fact that my mother was an aerospace engineer (an accoplishment for the 1950's,believe me). For me drafting was just a disciplined form of drawing that I felt would be helpful. But you should have seen the look on my instructor's face when he realized there was a female in his course (I was the only one in any of the three sections he taught). It was like I had green hair or something. Fortunately I could draw circles around anyone in the class -- he couldn't find any reason to get rid of me. It was touchy for a while. Ridiculous, considering it was 1972. Otherwise, both my parents encouraged my sisters and I to be what ever we wanted. I got a Bachelors in archeology and geology, and a masters in geology; worked for the oil companies a while and then stumbled onto Artificial Intelligence research and decided to stay for a while. But then my parents did give us a lot of "thinking" type toys like science kits,microscopes,telescopes,erector sets, rockhounding tools etc.etc.etc. Now my sisters are in non-traditional fields also. One heads a fire-management section (she directs setting fires for controlled burning, and controlling wildfires) for a portion of the Mt.Hood National Foreset in Oregon. The youngest one was in the Air Force Academy, and is now following in my mother's footsteps as an aerospace engineer. We were all encouraged to use our brains -- and to read ALOT. We were also push into more math courses than what a lot of our girlfriends were -- but it did make a difference. P.M.Pincha-Wagener
larry@kitty.UUCP (Larry Lippman) (01/19/86)
> As a practicing electrical engineer today, though, I can state that > my early electronics self-education has both very good and very bad > points. Learning to build amplifiers creatively rather than analytically > (let's just take the class "A" bipolar case here) serves one's purposes > well when you are 12 or so, but when you do it for a living, it is very > easy to succumb to the temptation to tweak your circuits rather than > do the correct operating point and stability analyses, etc. I have the same problem. On the other hand, "playing" with electronics at an early age gave me an innate FEELING for what will and will not work - this is something that is really quite valuable and is not easily derived from just a formal engineering education. ==> Larry Lippman @ Recognition Research Corp., Clarence, New York <== ==> UUCP {decvax|dual|rocksanne|rocksvax|watmath}!sunybcs!kitty!larry <== ==> VOICE 716/741-9185 {rice|shell}!baylor!/ <== ==> FAX 716/741-9635 {G1, G2, G3 modes} duke!ethos!/ <== ==> seismo!/ <== ==> "Have you hugged your cat today?" ihnp4!/ <==