[net.kids] Kid won't eat

avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (01/20/86)

My 4 year old son won't eat.  Okay. "So, what else is new?" you say.
Well, I am really looking for advice anyway.  I know lots of kids don't
eat.  I am asking what to do in the mean time. (Before he starts to eat or
gets married.)

He (and his sister -- 2) used to eat better.  He's recently cut out fruits.
No vegetables.  Now all he eats are eggs, bread, peanut butter, cheese,
hot dogs, and sometimes ham or bologna.  Now before I get letters saying
how nutritious peanut butter is, etc. let me just say I know.  What I want
to know is, how do you handle it?  Do we just give him what he wants?
("Hey!  I'm not running a diner, ya' know!") Or do we just feed him what
we eat and if he wants to go hungry he can. (No kid ever starved himself
to death with food on the table.) What do we do?

Please write -- don't post! -- and I promise I will save all replies and
send them all to the net.  All except those that start "Well, I don't have
kids, but it seems to me that they are just little adults and if you
reasoned with them and explained how things are...." (Please don't write
if you think kids are little adults.  My parents taught me not to
correspond with anyone from another planet.)

Fred Avolio
uucp - {seismo,decvax,cbosgd}!decuac!avolio
from arpaland send via seismo (decuac!avolio@seismo.css.gov)
from enetland, decuac::avolio

stacie@ut-ngp.UUCP (Stacie McGill) (01/21/86)

My gosh, there are other people with this problem!
My son is about to turn four and he has also stopped eating
fruits and vegetables.  He will rarely eats any type of meat except
weiners (loves them), bologna (sometimes), and maybe a bite of hamburger meat.
I also would like to hear suggestions on how to solve this problem.

Stacie Mcgill

stacie@ngp.UTEXAS.EDU

suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/23/86)

> My 4 year old son won't eat.  Okay. "So, what else is new?" you say.
> Well, I am really looking for advice anyway.  I know lots of kids don't
My 5 year old step daughter is much the same. Hates most
vegies, a lot of fruits and anything she hasn't tried before.
We insist that she have some of everything that is on the
table on her plate, and that she eat three or four bites
(regular sized, not the tiny one pea or one grain of rice spoonfuls
she sometimes tries) of each item. We will sit with her (the
entire family) until WE think she is finished. Peer pressure
from her siblings (hurry up so we can go play, etc.) is
useful. After she is finished, if it is available, we have
dessert. If in our opinion she ate enough nutritious food, she
may have some, otherwise, she doesn't get dessert.

We do try to serve a variety of foods so it isn't always a
struggle, but, there are VERY few vegies Annie will eat
willingly.

Be aware though, that there is a difference in refusing to eat
because the child doesn't want/like what is served, and eating
less than what the parent might expect because of lack of
hungar (which could be that s/he needs less than you think).

I also have a 14 year old step daughter with the same problem.
She's too old for the first steps mentioned, but we do
withhold dessert when needed.
-- 
Suzanne Barnett-Scott
uucp:	 ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze
CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division
14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
(602) 998-4800

smuga@mtuxo.UUCP (j.smuga) (01/24/86)

I've got the same problem: two picky eaters, ages 7 and 8.  (Did
someone say this mostly happens to boys?  Mine are both girls.)
It's been this way for years.  Obviously, I don't have the solution;
if I did, I wouldn't have the problem.  I can offer some observations,
based on years of experience.

1.  It's really more *my* problem than theirs.  I am the one who
worries about their nutrition, and I am the one whose feelings are
hurt when my good cooking is rejected.  ( I don't force them to eat
anything, I do insist that they taste it.)

2.  Their health hasn't suffered.

3.  Some strange food choices may provide good nutrition.  My kids
won't eat cooked vegetables, but they love frozen green beans.  I mean
they eat them still frozen.  Well, it's no extra work for me!  During
their preschool years, when they swore off meat and eggs, I used to
fix them "eggnog" for breakfast: eggs, milk, honey and vanilla extract
whipped togther in the blender (I forget the exact proportions).
For my 8-year-old, who won't drink milk, I fix puddings and cheese
omelets.

4.  I've tried the old trick of involving them in food preparation.
They *love* to cook, but it doesn't follow that they will eat well.

5.  Why is it that they help themselves to salad while I'm fixing it,
but won't eat it once it's on the table?  (At least they're eating
it.)

6.  Just when I think I know what they will and won't eat, they change
their minds.  So I prepare what I think is a great favorite, and then
no one eats it.

Anyway, I find it easier to live with this than to try to change it,
if it can be changed at all.
-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Janet Smuga			I've had a great many troubles in my time,
ihnp4!mtuxo!smuga		and most of them never happened.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (01/24/86)

I thought all kids did this at some time.  Some do it early, and then
some (maybe the same ones) go through a similar period in teenage when
nothing but pizza and hamburgers will do.  Both my daughters went through 
this both times.  I'm not sure my advice is worth anything--because they 
are still in it.  (They are 12 and 18.)  No one in my family likes what 
anyone else likes.  My husband and I love Chinese food--the 12 year old
hates it, but loves broccoli, which the 18 year old can't stand, and so
on.

My reaction was to throw up my hands, decide that the kid would 
probably not starve to death willingly, and buy some vitamins.  The
vitamins were for my peace of mind as much as anything else--I won't
have to explain to my doctor why my child has beri-beri.

My attitude is:  "I fix something for dinner.  If you don't like it,
fine, you don't have to eat it.  But I won't fix anything else just for
you.  I do require that if you have not tasted something in a year, that 
you take a taste to make sure that your taste buds haven't altered and you 
now like it.  (The children screamed at that one at first, but after a few 
incidents of discovering something wonderful that they thought they hated,
they agreed that this happens.)  If you are old enough to open the fridge,
and want to fix something for yourself to eat instead, fine."

I try to alternate--fix something one person likes one night, and
something for someone else another night.  I try to keep healthy
snacks about like apples and granola bars and peanut butter.  I also 
use this method on my husband, who is just as picky. (He won't eat beef, 
egg yolks, tomato sauce--none of these for health reasons, just taste.
Of course, the girls love anything with hamburger and tomato sauce.:-)
I often just declare snack nights--when everyone fixes whatever they
want for themselves.

This may be a bad method, because we seldom sit down to dinner (this
came about for other reasons, too--trying to get all 4 of us in one
place at one time is a pain.  You will hit this problem when your
young ones get older and have their own activities.)  But I have other 
things to worry about.  My mother thinks I am crazy and a bad mother for 
not supervising every bite that goes into their mouths.  (She used to
fix 3 large meals a day and make us clean up our plates--something I
suspect hasn't helped my weight problem.)  But on the good side, everyone 
in the family has learned to cook on their own.  And I get fewer ulcers.

I guess my main advice is to find something that is comfortable for you.
If you feel bad with yourself if the child doesn't eat a balanced meal,
then you may want to force them.  (It's always been my feeling that
it is not so much *what* is done to the child, as how good the parents
feel about it--we all have our parenting style.  Note this goes out
the window for true abuse and neglect!)

Sorry to make this so long.  Just a ramblin' person today.
-- 

                                     Sue Brezden
                                     ihnp4!drutx!slb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      To search for perfection is all very well,
      But to look for heaven is to live here in hell.   
                                       --Sting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

mim@ihnp3.UUCP (M. K. Fenlon) (01/24/86)

Hillary had lots of up's and down's in her appetite over her 8 years.
Within moderation, we let her because Jim and I both had parents that
pushed food. We both have a hard time with weight control. Hillary is
slender and I think that she has a chance to stay that way. Kid's
will not starve themselves. They may have  better knowledge of their
own needs. Vegetables and fruit may give more roughage then their bodies
can handle some times. May be they need more sugar and starches than
you do. Check this out but I think the figures for a child's diet
are 30% protien 50% carbohydrate 20% fat and 1200 to 1500 calories
per day between 5 and 9 years.

The biggest thing is DON'T MAKE A BIG DEAL OF FOOD. Don't make it 
a symbol of you love. Don't feel that if your children do not eat
when you expect or what you expect, that you are failing as a parent.

If you think this attitude makes Hillary  a fussy eater, don't worry.
She eats Thai, Indian, Chineze, American, Mexican and many other
varieties of food. She won't eat mushrooms, but Jim realized that
she has an allergy to fungus so may be her appetite knows best!

					Mary Fenlon 

slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) (01/24/86)

>
>6.  Just when I think I know what they will and won't eat, they change
>their minds.  So I prepare what I think is a great favorite, and then
>no one eats it.
>Janet Smuga		

Ain't it the truth.  And it's usually just after I've told someone else.
My mother asks "Does Jean like orange goat cheese?" and I say "She hates 
it--can't stand to see it on the table."  Then she gobbles it up.  And 
Mom looks at me with that "You don't know your own kid" look.

But that's probably the least of it when it comes to kids embarrassing
you.  Isn't it wonderful when they tell the family secrets to strangers?
Or when they sneeze right into a stranger's face at a train station?
-- 

                                     Sue Brezden
                                     ihnp4!drutx!slb

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      To search for perfection is all very well,
      But to look for heaven is to live here in hell.   
                                       --Sting
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

avolio@decuac.UUCP (Frederick M. Avolio) (01/29/86)

Well, I got quite a few responses to my posting on the subject and as
promised here is my article again followed by -- complete and unedited --
the suggestions I got.  I will let you all know of any positive results.
Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts, ideas and schemes.  Also, I am
grateful that most of you honored my request to mail rather than posting
follow-ups.

Fred
----------------
   My 4 year old son won't eat.  Okay. "So, what else is new?" you say.
   Well, I am really looking for advice anyway.  I know lots of kids don't
   eat.  I am asking what to do in the mean time. (Before he starts to eat or
   gets married.)
   
   He (and his sister -- 2) used to eat better.  He's recently cut out fruits.
   No vegetables.  Now all he eats are eggs, bread, peanut butter, cheese,
   hot dogs, and sometimes ham or bologna.  Now before I get letters saying
   how nutritious peanut butter is, etc. let me just say I know.  What I want
   to know is, how do you handle it?  Do we just give him what he wants?
   ("Hey!  I'm not running a diner, ya' know!") Or do we just feed him what
   we eat and if he wants to go hungry he can. (No kid ever starved himself
   to death with food on the table.) What do we do?
   
   Please write -- don't post! -- and I promise I will save all replies and
   send them all to the net.  All except those that start "Well, I don't have
   kids, but it seems to me that they are just little adults and if you
   reasoned with them and explained how things are...." (Please don't write
   if you think kids are little adults.  My parents taught me not to
   correspond with anyone from another planet.)
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Sun, 19 Jan 86 21:32:54 est
   From: Beth Katz <seismo!gymble.umd.edu!umcp-cs!beth>
   Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
   
   I don't have kids ..... (I've read that I need to add that disclaimer)
   If you want to ignore what I write, fine.  I don't think kids are
   little adults.  I think that adults are often just big kids :-).
   
   My parents rarely served us special dinners.  If we didn't like what
   was being served, well, we could just go without dessert.  They also
   encouraged us to eat one bite of the offending food.  "One of these
   days you'll find that you like it."  As someone who didn't like eggs,
   cheese, crab, or brussel sprouts, I must say that at least for me,
   they were right.  How could I ever not like those things?!  I'm not
   sure that the 'eat or no dessert' created a good approach to sweets,
   but I'm not great at child psychology.  My aunt and uncle serve four
   different meals (one for themselves and one for each of the three
   kids).  What a pain.  If you are concerned with the balance of your
   child's tastes, you might try to include a multivitamin, but I'd
   just figure they would get over it.  If you could encourage a single
   bite here and there and not make a big deal over it, I'd imagine
   you'd succeed.
   				Beth Katz
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Mon, 20 Jan 86 16:37:23 est
   From: rew@cbosgd.ATT.UUCP (Bob Warren)
   
   Actually, your list of foods eaten is long by some standards.  I have
   two kids who are going through the same sort of thing--no end to it yet
   even though they are 6 & 9 (the baby still eats anything, thank god).
   We've tried a mixture of insisting they eat SOME of what we are serving
   and letting them eat something from their 'acceptable' list.  For example,
   if we are having macaroni & cheese (which one will eat and the other not),
   the non eater is allowed to go get some vanilla yogurt, a bowl and spoon
   and serve himself.  My wife leans toward feeding them what they will
   eat, while I lean towards autocratic repression--a compromise is usually
   arrived at.
   
   If you haven't read it, the book by the Hoban's "Bread & Jam for Francis"
   is a humorous story on the subject that kids love (but refuse to live
   by its moral).
   
   Bob Warren
   cbosgd!rew
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Mon, 20 Jan 86 13:34:01 est
   From: aplvax!osiris!jcp (Jody Patilla)
   
   Fred, dear heart, when I was a kid I never ate anything (well, now and then,
   maybe). I drove my parents crazy because I had no interest in food at all.
   I even tried to talk them out of making me eat lunch (didn't work). For
   6 solid years I ate opeanut butter and apple jelly sandwiches every day for
   lunch. And see ? it doesn't seemed to have hurt me. My parents used to
   insist that I eat at least a bite of everything (tho' admittedly ours was
   a limited menu in those days) and I can remember sitting at the table
   for two hours at times since I wasn't allowed to leave until I had eaten
   something (and NO DESSERT, of course). True, I was kinda pale and thin
   when I was little, but hey, I filled out. And now I love raw fish and
   squid and alls kinds of strange things. 
   
   My parents gave in or worked around some things, and put their feet down
   on some others. Seems to me I also recalll having some things snuck into
   food on me - if I didn't know what it was and it was made to seem 
   important or grownup, I could be persuaded to try it. I don't recall ever
   going hungry, either. If Michael won't eat veggies, what about fruit or
   fruit juices ? Mom preserved lots of fruits and I ate a little bowl at
   every meal. Drank lots of milk, too (probably the single best thing). I
   grew out of it about the time I hit adolescence at which point I ate everything
   in sight - cleaned all my friend's trays off in the cafeteria every day.
   (then of course, the folks started complaining about how much it cost to
   feed me). Curiously, my brother has always enjoyed eating everything, ever sincehe was a baby. Mother attributes this to her eating asparagus and chicken\
   livers when she was pregnant (too sick to eat when I was coming along).
   
   Clarice
   
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 09:47:15 est
   From: fox@nimbus.DEC (Roberta L. Fox  DTN 297-2110)
   
   Dear Fred:
   
   First, my bonafides:  I'm the mother of a five and a half year 
   old (and don't think the half year doesn't make a difference!) 
   daughter.
   
   	You didn't make clear what, in particular, bothers you 
   about your son not eating:  does it create a lot of work for you 
   and/or yours?  Is it because he's setting a bad example for his 
   younger sister?  etc.?  Therefore, my response to you has to be 
   very general, and assumes that your son is getting reasonably 
   adequate nutrition, and has no health problems/dietary 
   restrictions.
   
   	My experience with my own kid, confirmed by observations 
   of other peoples' kids (and conversations with the parents), is 
   that the age of four is when kids really begin to assert 
   themselves as independent beings.  However, these independent 
   beings tend to be conservative, wanting many things in the same 
   way, at the same time of day, i.e., they like routine, if _they_ 
   can control it to some extent.  One of the things they tend to 
   want to control is what they eat.
   
   	Since I don't know your specific situation, my best suggestion 
   to you is to refrain from "slugging it out" with your son; 
   provide him with the food that he wants, but don't knock 
   yourselves out over it.  If you're making stir-fried 
   veggies for yourselves, don't hassle making a hot dog as well; 
   give him peanut butter. 
   
   	BTW, while I certainly don't think that children are 
   "little adults" (I'm more inclined to think that most adults are 
   "big children"), I've found that reasoning with a kid on a 
   limited basis works.  For example, you might 
   want to give your son vitamins to make up for what he doesn't get 
   in the way of vegetables and fruits.  He may balk at this;  
   explaining why you're making him take them, rather than just "because 
   I say so", may not seem to make a difference now, but increases 
   your chance of getting cooperation at a later battle.
   
   	Another thought (warning:  MAJOR BIAS ABOUT TO APPEAR!):  
   if you allow your children things with sugar (white, brown, corn 
   syrup, honey) and white flour (e.g., white bread, white pasta as 
   opposed to Superoni or whole wheat pasta), you might want to 
   experiment with cutting down. I've found that 
   when my daughter eats those things, her appetite goes bonkers in 
   strange ways; foods that she normally loves (such as frozen peas 
   -- cooked, of course), totally lose their appeal.
   
   	I'm sure there's lots of nutritional references and 
   psycho-babble I or someone else could come up with to buttress my 
   points; however, I'm an engineer, not a social scientist, and 
   besides, I'm from the "show-me" state.  I hope this helps; feel 
   free to get back to me if you have other questions, or if I'm not 
   adequately addressing your concerns.
   
   Bobbi
   aka Roberta Fox
   NIMBUS::FOX
   DTN 297-2110
   Marlborough
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 11:40:57 est
   From: ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf
   
   There is a comic strip called _Calvin_and_Hobbs_ is funny but once the kid
   wouldn't eat his veggies so his father told him it was toxic nuclear waste
   and if he ate it he would disinegrate, so the kid starts wolfing it down.
   (Might work?) What I do with my kids is forcefully tell them to eat a few
   times and then (if they still refuse) tell them if they don't eat it now
   they'll get it later. (i.e. at supper "Fine then you can have it for break-
   fast) after you do this a few times (I mean really do it!) they catch on.
   Also, if you know the child doesn't like something, just give him/her a 
   little bit (like a tablespoon or so) and reward them for finishing *ALL*
   their dinner.   I don't think any one technique will help.  You've got to
   mix approaches to keep the kids off balance, and to keep your sanity!
   GOOD LUCK!
   
   					Dave Scott
   					ihnp4!ihlpa!ibyf
   
   Great! I'm about to get killed a million miles from 
   no where with a gung-ho iguana telling me to relax!
   
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 16:55:16 est
   From: kaiser@belker.DEC (Pete Kaiser, 225-5441, HLO2-1/N10)
   
   Fred --
   
   Just saw your note in "net.kids", and my first thought was "Why try to make him
   eat?  How's his health?"
   
   If he's in good health, and his eating habits don't seem to be having any bad
   effect, what's the point of trying to force him to change?  Lots of adult food
   habits aren't nutritional, but social.  If he's doing okay, I'd say to leave his
   eating habits alone.
   
   This has another good potential effect: it removes food and eating habits from
   the arena of things he'll use to annoy you.  In our family, with our 4-year-
   old, there's scarcely any food discipline except the very idea of mealtimes, and
   some limitations on candy.  Mimi has no trouble complying with these.  She often
   doesn't eat what we're eating (we're having fish soup and she's having ANOTHER
   peanut-butter-and-honey sandwich!), but she's in fine health.  Why argue with
   success?  She obviously knows what she's doing, in a sense, and I honestly don't
   care to struggle with her about food unless there's some very clear benefit.
   
   In a few words: unless your son's health is involved ... relax.
   
   ---Pete
   
   Kaiser%BELKER.DEC@decwrl.arpa
   {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|ucbvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-belker!kaiser
   DEC, 77 Reed Road (HLO2-1/N10), Hudson MA 01749  617-568-5441
   
   ===============================================
   Posted-Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 12:28:42 est
   Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 12:28:42 est
   From: decvax!linus!raybed2!rayssd!dpw (Darryl P. Wagoner)
   
   I have a five year old that just went through the not eating and
   also not sleeping.  I feel that letting him eat what everyone
   else eats or go hungry within reason works the best.  My four year
   old is also going through a phase of not eating food that are
   mixed up together.  This is very common in 4-5 year old range.
   The big don't, is to give him any attention because of it.  He 
   will out grow it.  
   
   Not eat also may be BUT NOT NECESSARY a symptom of child abuse.
   If that is the only symptom of child abuse that he has I wouldn't
   worry about it just a phase.  But if he is having problems sleeping,
   withdrawing, bad dreams, etc.  You might then start considering
   child abuse as a possible.  Both my ex and my wife's ex abuse our
   children.  I am going to court tomorrow to remove the rest of the
   visitation from my ex-wife.  
   
   Let me know how things work out.
   
   	
   	Darryl Wagoner
   	Raytheon Co.; Portsmouth RI; (401)-847-8000 x4089
   	...!decvax!brunix!rayssd!dpw
   	...!allegra!rayssd!dpw
   	...!linus!rayssd!dpw
   
   
   ===============================================
   From: seismo!ihnp4!tektronix!athena!charliem
   Return-Path: <charliem@athena>
   Comment: Message received over unauthenticated port at tektronix
   Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
   Date: 21 Jan 86 14:50:07 PST (Tue)
   
   I have absolutely no useful help, only wanted to say thanks for such a
   great posting and you have my sympathy.  We have girls one and a half
   and five and a half who won't eat.  We sorta run a diner.  My wife ends
   up giving the baby the ice cream carton right out of the freezer in the
   evening, knowing that if she don't eat she'll wake up all night!  And
   we're anti-sugar fanatics.  Add ketchup to your list.  This is one of
   the cliches about kids that seem to have been true since the beginning
   of time.
   
   	-- Charlie Mills
   ..{ucbvax,decvax,uw-beaver,hplabs,ihnp4,allegra}!tektronix!athena!charliem
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Wed, 22 Jan 86 09:17:06 EST
   From: <seismo!umcp-cs!aplcen!uucp>
   
   >From smith Wed Jan 22 08:47 EST 1986 remote from cp1
   In-reply-to: your article <774@decuac.UUCP>
   
   I have a son who will 5 in a couple of weeks and we have had the same problem
   with him not eating "properly".  We tried several approaches but the one that
   worked for us was telling him that we would not fix him something different
   than what we were eating and that he could eat or not.  Also, we insisted
   that he could not leave the table until we were finished.
      By the way, in the last 3 weeks he has started eating what's on his
   plate again, so our neighbors were right in saying that it's just a phase.
   Good luck! (You'll need it if you were raised like I was, to "eat every-
   thing on your plate".)
   
   -Steven Smith
   C & P Telephone
   Washington, D.C.
   
   
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Mon, 20 Jan 86 23:58:20 PST
   From: seismo!hao!sdcsvax!jack!man!rgale
   
   My first suggestion is not to try to force him.  My father tells me that I
   used to like cheese until he 'made' me eat it one night.  I still dislike it.
   
   My kid went through the same thing -- in fact, still goes through it (he's 10).
   I'd serve him his dinner and be told that he hated it.  "Oh?  You liked it
   well enough when we had it last week."  "No I didn't!  I've NEVER liked it!"
   But it's even money that two months later he'll ask why we never have such-
   and-such any more -- it's his favorite food, doncha know...
   
   My advice -- for what little it's worth -- is to let it slide.  Mine lived on
   peanut butter for most of a year -- yes, it _is_ nutritious.  You can spread
   it on celery for a treat; all sorts of things.  As long as he's getting the
   basic requirements (vitamins help a lot!), don't sweat the finickiness; it'll
   pass.
   
   As a rule, I've found it easy enough not to prepare meals that contain items
   he currently hates.  On the other hand, when tonight's the night that he
   decides he hates whatever it is we're having, that's tough -- "This is what
   we're having for dinner.  Eat it or don't."  Sometimes he does; sometimes he
   doesn't; I can't believe that missing a meal will cause any permanent damage.
   
   Children as small adults?  Gimme a break!  I forget who said it, but one of
   my favorite quotations is "You can no more think like a baby than you can
   think like a bee."  Small children are much closer to babies (and bees) than
   to adults.
   
   At least, at this point, mine is [arguably] a sentient being.
   
   Good luck, hang in there -- keep reminding yourself that these are the years
   that you're supposed to be enjoying your kids the most!  I already miss my
   five-year-old, but at the time I wouldn't have given even odds that he'd 
   live to see six!  (Right now, eleven gets shakier each day...)
   
   ---
   -----
   
   Ryan Gale 
   {ihnp4, akgua, decvax} !sdcsvax!man!rgale
   
   
   
   
   
   ===============================================
   Posted-Date: Wed, 22 Jan 86 12:14:46 pst
   Date: Wed, 22 Jan 86 12:14:46 pst
   From: seismo!lll-crg!amdcad!decwrl!glacier!oliveb!tymix!adams (Christina E. Adams)
   Organization: Tymnet NTD, Cupertino CA
   
   In article <774@decuac.UUCP> you write:
   >My 4 year old son won't eat.  Okay. "So, what else is new?" you say.
   >Well, I am really looking for advice anyway.  I know lots of kids don't
   >eat.  I am asking what to do in the mean time. (Before he starts to eat or
   >gets married.)
   >
   >He (and his sister -- 2) used to eat better.  He's recently cut out fruits.
   >No vegetables.  Now all he eats are eggs, bread, peanut butter, cheese,
   >hot dogs, and sometimes ham or bologna.  Now before I get letters saying
   >how nutritious peanut butter is, etc. let me just say I know.  What I want
   >to know is, how do you handle it?  Do we just give him what he wants?
   >("Hey!  I'm not running a diner, ya' know!") Or do we just feed him what
   >we eat and if he wants to go hungry he can. (No kid ever starved himself
   >to death with food on the table.) What do we do?
   
   
   I have 2 girls.  One is 13 and a solid healthy 120 pounds at 5'3". THe
   other is 7 and is my step-daughter who lives in another state with her mother
   most of the year and with us in the summer.(this is a real trauma, but not the
   point).  When Jennifer - the older one was around 4  I noticed the same
   kind of thing, although I also noticed it changed about every week.  OK, fine
   this week you dont like carrots, last week it was corn, 
   OH, I see, corn is ok this week, and so on.  Let me add that Jennifer
   did at the time(and still does) get plenty of exercise.  
   
   Anyway, I put a *reasonable* amount of food on her plate - she could
   eat it or not and if she didn't clean her plate - no dessert.  I never
   had any problem getting her to eat enough.  I still don't, even though
   her firends are very calorie concious.  She belongs to the swim team and
   swims 2 miles a day, belongs to 2  girl scout troops, one is into 
   overnight bicycle trips 50 or so miles and the other is into backpacking.
   Oh, and she is an ice skater - goes to competitions and all.  She has 
   a great appetite and burns it up.
   
   Katie is a very picky eater.  She is underweight.  When she was 4 she
   weighed 40 pounds, when she arrived last summer, she was 7 and 45 pounds.
   She never wanted to eat and hates everything.  Katie's favorite thing
   to do in the whole wide world is draw.  She's not very social and is
   not athletic.  At school during recess when the other kids play kickball
   she just goes to the library and draws.
   
   This is nothing new.  She's been like that since she was 2.  When
   she came down last summer it was no different.  The house rule is that
   even if you *don't like* something, you still have to take 1 bite.
   Katie would throw a tantrum (at 7!).  We would send her to time out. 
   Ruining everyone's dinner wasn't helping anything.  
   
   I work during the day and had arranged for the kids to do various things.
   Katie went to girl scout day camps, took gymnastics and swimming lessons, 
   and ice skating lessons.  In the evenings I taught her how to ride a bike.
   Jennifer taught her to roller skate.  She was one *busy* little girl and
   she really started to have *fun*.  She didn't do alot of drawing this summer and
   don't get me wrong I don't have anything against art.
   After a week or so, I noticed that she was
   not only eating reasonably but asking for seconds of the things she *hated(?)*
   when she first came down here.  So, it may be that channeling your
   youngster's energy into some constructive exercise could increase his
   appetite and make him more willing for variety.  Last August when Katie
   got on the plane to go home, she weighed in at 52 pounds.  (a gain of
   more than 10% of her body weight!)
   
   Katie's parents would find things that she liked and feed them to her all the
   like scrambled eggs.  Easy to fix and she'd eat them the poor kid had
   scrambled eggs coming out of her ears.  She's still not fond of them.
   They also felt that Kate's refusal of foods was her way of experimenting
   with control of her world.  I think she is underactive and doesn't
   need the calories.
   
   Katie also still sucks her thumb.
   
   There may be a *reason* other than a stage he's going through.  BOth
   of the above examples kind of have a lot to do with personality not 
   to mention environment.  When we saw Katie for  christmas it was easy to see
   that she had lost all the weight that she had brought home with her that summer.A quick trip to the scales verified that.
   
   
   
   Maybe this isn't any help to you, but it may be interesting.
   -- 
   
   
                         -Christie Adams
   		      {...sun!ios ...hplabs|fortune!oliveb}!tymix!adams
   
     186,000 miles per second.  It's not just a good idea...
         It's the law!!
   
   
   ===============================================
   From: seismo!ihnp4!tektronix!tekgvs!keithe
   Return-Path: <keithe@tekgvs>
   Comment: Message received over unauthenticated port at tektronix
   Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
   Date: 22 Jan 86 13:37:20 PST (Wed)
   
   I always try to keep in mind two things, maybe even in order:
   	(1) who is in charge here?
   	(2) what is the kid learning as a result of whatever course
   	    of action I take in this particular case?
   
   If he's in charge, uh-oh! And what are you there for except to acquiese
   to his desires and provide for his every want?
   
   If he's learning that I'll provide only what he wants to eat, he's
   learning that the world will conform to him and perhaps come to
   expect it. Uh-ho!
   
   That's my way of thinking; you are of course completely free to
   ignore it. Many do :-)
   
   keith
   
   Keith Ericson  at TekLabs (resident factious factotum)
   Tektronix, PO 500, MS 58-383     Beaverton OR 97077    (503)627-6042
   uucp:[ucbvax|decvax|ihnp4|(and_many_others)]!tektronix!tekgvs!keithe
   CSnet:keithe@tek                      ARPAnet: keithe.tek@rand-relay
   
   ===============================================
   Path: decuac!cvl!umcp-cs!seismo!hao!noao!terak!suze
   From: suze@terak.UUCP
   Message-ID: <1014@terak.UUCP>
   Date: 23 Jan 86 17:38:38 GMT
   References: <774@decuac.UUCP>
   Organization: Calcomp Display Products Division, Scottsdale, AZ, USA
   Lines: 32
   
   > My 4 year old son won't eat.  Okay. "So, what else is new?" you say.
   > Well, I am really looking for advice anyway.  I know lots of kids don't
   My 5 year old step daughter is much the same. Hates most
   vegies, a lot of fruits and anything she hasn't tried before.
   We insist that she have some of everything that is on the
   table on her plate, and that she eat three or four bites
   (regular sized, not the tiny one pea or one grain of rice spoonfuls
   she sometimes tries) of each item. We will sit with her (the
   entire family) until WE think she is finished. Peer pressure
   from her siblings (hurry up so we can go play, etc.) is
   useful. After she is finished, if it is available, we have
   dessert. If in our opinion she ate enough nutritious food, she
   may have some, otherwise, she doesn't get dessert.
   
   We do try to serve a variety of foods so it isn't always a
   struggle, but, there are VERY few vegies Annie will eat
   willingly.
   
   Be aware though, that there is a difference in refusing to eat
   because the child doesn't want/like what is served, and eating
   less than what the parent might expect because of lack of
   hungar (which could be that s/he needs less than you think).
   
   I also have a 14 year old step daughter with the same problem.
   She's too old for the first steps mentioned, but we do
   withhold dessert when needed.
   -- 
   Suzanne Barnett-Scott
   uucp:	 ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze
   CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division
   14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260
   (602) 998-4800
   
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Wed, 22 Jan 86 07:45:53 pst
   From: seismo!dual!madvax!susan (Susan Finkelman)
   References: <774@decuac.UUCP>
   
   You've got it ALL WRONG.  Adults are big kids, not the other way
   around... I ran into the same problem with a kid I lived with in
   college.  She was 5 at the time & following much the same diet.  Maybe
   it's a cult?  Any way, I moved in in the middle of this and her
   folks had already given up bribing, screaming, etc. and were pretty
   much feeding her what she wanted with the exception of sweets.  We
   did stir an egg into her plain (no milk or I won't eat it) cornmeal
   mush, without her knowledge or consent.  And we did have occasional
   luck with getting her to eat veggies she'd helped buy or prepare or
   bring in from the garden.  As a novelty I was useful for about 2
   days as I recall.  Anyhow, she got over it in a few months.  She's
   doing very well in college, last I spoke with her dad.  
   
   I'd suggest trying to get your kid to taste what's being offered and
   trying to prepare at least one acceptable food for each family meal
   but not to give in to all whims, and not to reward poor behavior with
   desert or pop or candy, and beyond that just don't worry.  They seem
   to survive.  You might check with your pediatrician (over the phone 
   should work just fine) as they see so many kids they often have 
   better tricks.  Good luck.  As I recall, it's a drag.  And I still
   have that to look forward to.
   
     Susan Finkelman
   	{zehntel,amd,fortune,resonex,rtech}!varian!susan
   
   
   
   ===============================================
   Date: Tue, 21 Jan 86 10:13:34 est
   From: Adele Newton <decvax!watmath!watcgl!anewton>
   Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario
   
   
   Our David (who is also 4) can also be a real pain in the ass about eating.
   He won't touch onions (he as RADAR about them) or peas or potatoes, etc, etc
   EXCEPT AT DAYCARE!  He'll eat anything that Agnes, the cook at his daycare
   centre cooks, including onion soup and liver!
   I put it down to peer pressure.  Does your son go to any sort of daycare?
   David's preferences changed alot after he ate something at school and
   discovered it wasn't as gross as he originally insisted.  For example,
   he'll now eat fish.  What a breakthrough!
   
   I can't say this is any help to you, except to know that there are times
   when I'd like to scream too.  Getting him together with other kids who
   eat a variety of things may help, if you have that opportunity.
   

tim@ism780c.UUCP (Tim Smith) (02/01/86)

In article <356@drutx.UUCP> slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden) writes:
>
>But that's probably the least of it when it comes to kids embarrassing
>you.  Isn't it wonderful when they tell the family secrets to strangers?
>Or when they sneeze right into a stranger's face at a train station?

If the stranger is sticking it's face down where your kids keep their
faces, then it deserves to be sneezed on!  Or are your kids just very
tall?  Or maybe they sneeze with unusual strength? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Miss Manners would certainly not approve of these stangers!
-- 
Tim Smith       sdcrdcf!ism780c!tim || ima!ism780!tim || ihnp4!cithep!tim

hedden@atux01.UUCP (D. Hedden) (02/04/86)

In article <2845@ut-ngp.UUCP>, stacie@ut-ngp.UUCP (Stacie McGill) writes:
> My gosh, there are other people with this problem!
> My son is about to turn four and he has also stopped eating
> fruits and vegetables.  He will rarely eats any type of meat except
> weiners (loves them), bologna (sometimes), and maybe a bite of hamburger meat.
> I also would like to hear suggestions on how to solve this problem.

I don't think it's a problem that needs a cure, unless real health
problems begin to occur.  My daughter would not eat until she was
4.  She would literally go for 2 - 3 days without eating a bite,
but she remained healthy and normal weight for her age and size.
We kept a close eye on her health, withheld any snacks, gave
vitamins, and continued to offer meals at regular times.  Suddenly
at four she started to eat voraciously (making up, I guess). 
This doesn't seem to have hurt her in any way.

My son, on the other hand, ate as much as I do until he was about
4 (without getting fat!), and then suddenly stopped eating
anything but his sandwich at lunch.  His health, weight, etc.
continue to be ok, so we are not forcing anything.

Incidentally, both children (especially my son) have maintained
high activity levels while not eating.  I can't understand how
they can possibly do it.

    "The moving hand writes ..."