lws@hou2d.UUCP (lwsamocha) (01/13/86)
* My little girl is over twoandahalf and still begging for that ole debbil BOTTLE! This is usually only at bedtime and/or times of distress. Yes, I realize that we have probably spoiled her into it by not weaning her earlier. She does use a cup at all other times, but come bedtime she will kick up a fuss if she doesn't get one. We have tried letting her cry it out, but seldom can we put up with that racket and usually give in. Another addition is due in eight weeks and we are quite aware we are asking for more trouble then than now. Any advice is appreciated. Thanx in advance LWS lws!hou2d *
ggr@lanl.ARPA (01/14/86)
> * > My little girl is over twoandahalf and still begging for that > ole debbil BOTTLE! > This is usually only at bedtime and/or times of distress. > It's up to the parents, not the child. When my youngest sister was about 2 and a half, and still on the bottle, mom went to the hospital for about a week. My Aunt took the "baby" during that period, and took her off the bottle. She was completely bottle broken in about 3 days. Unfortunately, when mom got out of the hospital she put "baby" back on the bottle!! When my mom finally did wise up, the final removal from the bottle was quite accidental. "Baby" dropped the bottle and broke it. Mom used that incident to stop bottle feeding her. Hang in there!
jimb@tekcbi.UUCP (Jim Boland) (01/14/86)
> She does use a cup at all other times, but come bedtime > she will kick up a fuss if she doesn't get one. > We have tried letting her cry it out, but seldom can we > put up with that racket and usually give in. > > Any advice is appreciated. > Thanx in advance Sometimes, raising children is harder on you than it is on them. One thing you must remember is that they are training you. Somehow, you must regain control. So--- Hard as it may seem, LET HER CRY IT OUT. You may think you cannot put up with the racket so you give in. You, in effect, are telling her that if she makes enough racket she can get her way. And she knows it works or she wouldn't do it. Surprise her a few times. Pretty soon she'll figure out that it doesn't work and quit doing it. Better to solve that problem now rather than live with it for some time.
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (01/15/86)
In article <845@hou2d.UUCP> lws@hou2d.UUCP (lwsamocha) writes: >* >My little girl is over twoandahalf and still begging for that >ole debbil BOTTLE! >Yes, I realize that we have probably spoiled her into it by >not weaning her earlier. >She does use a cup at all other times, but come bedtime >she will kick up a fuss if she doesn't get one. >We have tried letting her cry it out, but seldom can we >put up with that racket and usually give in. First decide who is going to control giving up the bottle. Does she get to decide when she is ready or do you? If you are the one deciding, then quit giving in to her demands. She is going to learn that she can get you to change your mind by kicking up a fuss. That behavior is hard to change. Decide when she can have a bottle (never, only at night, only at home) and stick to it. Give her a substitute to take to bed with her. She may not like this approach, but if you are controlling, then control. If she gets to decide when to give up the bottle, you can influence her. During the day talk to her about how big she is and how someday she will not take a bottle to bed anymore (just don't overdo it). At night give her a choice of bottle or not. Or require her to ask for one. Encourage her to try going to bed without it but do not force her to. The new baby will probably influence her, but not necessarily in a negative way. If she is looking forward to being a big sister she may decide that bottles, like diapers, are for babies. -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | General Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own and | | do not necessarily reflect the opinions | | of McDonnell Douglas Corporation. | +-------------------------------------------------------+ PKW hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur
adw@hou2g.UUCP (A.WILLIAMS) (01/16/86)
Since your child is 2 1/2, this should have been taken care of a long time ago. You shouldn't give in and make it clear to the child that there is not going to be a bottle around for them. My daughter is 2 1/2 and she has been off the bottle since she was about a year old. Since then, she never asked for one. I just decided to give her a cup with something in it and didn't give her any more bottles. You'd better work fast since there is going to be another child soon. Watch out for this older child once the other child is using bottles.
mark@umcp-cs.UUCP (Mark Weiser) (01/17/86)
In article <771@hou2g.UUCP> adw@hou2g.UUCP writes: >Since your child is 2 1/2, this should have been taken care of >a long time ago. I cannot let this dogmatic answer go by unanswered. Some of us have children still breastfeeding at age 2 1/2, by choice (ours). It isn't something we "should have taken care of". For us, its right. -mark -- Spoken: Mark Weiser ARPA: mark@maryland Phone: +1-301-454-7817 CSNet: mark@umcp-cs UUCP: {seismo,allegra}!umcp-cs!mark USPS: Computer Science Dept., University of Maryland, College Park, MD 20742
ajs@hpfcla.UUCP (01/23/86)
> "Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave > ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one > morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has > to be trained. While I agree in general, I must take exception to your example. Our daughter, now 2 years, 9 months old, is toilet training herself nicely with very little effort. She DID, one day, just sort of say "perhaps I'll start to use it most of the time". Why is it going so easily? 1. Mommy and Daddy got used to changing diapers, and aren't in as much of a rush as we thought we would be to get her out of them. 2. Therefore we have been pretty low-key about it, compared to many things. It's just too much work to "train" her, and besides we are quite sensitive to the fact that much of a child's personality derives from how they were toilet trained (ask your local child psychologist). 3. Her potty has been in place and known to her for over a year, with occasional gentle suggestions, nothing more. She even experimented once when it appeared, but decided she didn't want it yet. Some things are not so hard... Alan Silverstein
suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) (01/23/86)
> Since your child is 2 1/2, this should have been taken care of > a long time ago. You shouldn't give in and make it clear to the > child that there is not going to be a bottle around for them. WHY? WHY? Why does everyone seem to think a child must give up a bottle, a pacifier, a blanket, etc. by some certain age? What does it matter to the parents? I can understand ensuring that the child learns to use other skills, such as drinking out of a cup, is good, and I can understand refusing to give a bottle of anything other than water at bedtime for dental health reasons. But why insist that the child cannot have a bottle at all? The child will give up the bottle when s/he is ready. (This is not directed specifically at the writer of the quoted article, but at all the parents who have written in to recommend ways to make the child give up a bottle. I truly don't understand why, please enlighten me.) -- Suzanne Barnett-Scott uucp: ...{decvax,ihnp4,noao,savax,seismo}!terak!suze CalComp/Sanders Display Products Division 14151 N 76th Street, Scottsdale, AZ 85260 (602) 998-4800
jeanette@randvax.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) (01/27/86)
>WHY? WHY? Why does everyone seem to think a child must give up >a bottle, a pacifier, a blanket, etc. by some certain age? >What does it matter to the parents? I can understand ensuring that >the child learns to use other skills, such as drinking out of >a cup, is good, and I can understand refusing to give a bottle of >anything other than water at bedtime for dental health >reasons. But why insist that the child cannot have a bottle >at all? The child will give up the bottle when s/he is ready. > >(This is not directed specifically at the writer of the >quoted article, but at all the parents who have written in to >recommend ways to make the child give up a bottle. I truly >don't understand why, please enlighten me.) A child does not do certain things *by instinct*. A child has to be prodded, weaned, taught, trained. A child does not say to himself "Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has to be trained. A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. You don't want him to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE still wants it at that age. That is where *you* as a parent comes in. It is up to you to decide if you feel he should give up his bottle. HE MAY NOT BE READY while he is still relatively young; check his reaction. Most children won't give up such comfort without a fight; give him another means of comfort. For example, there is a point where a child does not need his bottle for nourishment, therefore, it is used for comfort. It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY (not your neighbor's, your mother's, any other mother's) to decide whether or not he is getting too old for this. If you think he is, see if he is just as happy taking a stuffed animal to bed, rather than a bottle.
smuga@mtuxo.UUCP (j.smuga) (01/31/86)
> >WHY? WHY? Why does everyone seem to think a child must give up > >a bottle, a pacifier, a blanket, etc. by some certain age? > > > A child does not do certain things *by instinct*. A child has to be > prodded, weaned, taught, trained. A child does not say to himself > "Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave > ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one > morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has > to be trained. > Wrong. Children do initiate progress. They want to learn to take care of themselves. A parent's role is to *help**, not to force them. > A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. Who says so? >You don't want him > to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE > still wants it at that age. He won't. Anyway, the child in the original example only wanted the bottle in the evening, as I recall. >That is where *you* as a parent comes in. It > is up to you to decide if you feel he should give up his bottle. HE MAY > NOT BE READY while he is still relatively young; check his reaction. Most > children won't give up such comfort without a fight; give him another > means of comfort. For example, there is a point where a child does not > need his bottle for nourishment, therefore, it is used for comfort. It is > YOUR RESPONSIBILITY (not your neighbor's, your mother's, any other > mother's) to decide whether or not he is getting too old for this. If you > think he is, see if he is just as happy taking a stuffed animal to bed, > rather than a bottle. Raising children is much easier when you cooperate with them and give them a chance to cooperate with you. -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Janet Smuga I've had a great many troubles in my time, ihnp4!mtuxo!smuga and most of them never happened. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (J. Kenneth Riviere) (01/31/86)
In article <2904@randvax.UUCP> jeanette@rand-unix.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) writes: > I am a guest on this account, please do not send mail. >A child does not do certain things *by instinct*. A child has to be >prodded, weaned, taught, trained. A child does not say to himself >"Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave >ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one >morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has >to be trained. > A child will potty train himself and he will wean himself, not *by instinct* but because he wants to be like the people around him. My son age 2.5 has started potty training himself. All it took was buying him a potty and telling him that " It won't be long before your bigger and you will be able to use the potty just like Mommy & Daddy" a few times. A week ago I comprehended that 'ba-da-mo-men' ment that he was having a bowel movement. I told him that the next time he was having a bowel movement he should tell mommy and I would help him use the potty. The next day he started running to the bath room shouting 'ba-da-mo-men' 'ba-da-mo-men' ' ba-da-mo-men', we got him undressed just in time. Since then everytime he has had a bowel movement while I was at home he has used the potty. When you don't try to make a child conform to someone elses idea of when he is ready to learn new behaviors you will find that the child will learn them as soon as he is able. As for weaning, I have never tryed to wean my son. He has always been allowed to nurse whenever he wanted, but he is slowly weaning himself. Now he just wants to nurse before bedtime. >A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. You don't want him >to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE >still wants it at that age. Why not. How does it hurt you? How does it hurt the child? O, you would be embarrassed because other people believe a child should be off the bottle by then. Well, if you care more about others reactions then your childs feelings, thats your, or should I say your childs, problem. Jean McSpadden -- J. Kenneth Riviere (JoKeR) Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!jkr "I'd rather be conservative than bigoted, but I'd rather be *dead* than conservative!" -Kate from _Kate_and_Allie_
theriault@rayna.DEC (02/01/86)
---------------------Reply to mail dated 31-JAN-1986 21:25--------------------- People may be sick of this topic but I just have to add my 2 cents. I have a nine month old child who has just given up her bottle. I didn't even have to work at it. Now I know this will not help parents of 2 or 3 year olds to wean but it may help another new parent like myself. I read a fair amount about weaning and the general opinion is 9 months and 12 months appears to be the two best times to wean. "experts" say babies show boredom with the whole thing so won't really miss what they are bored with. They say that after this time you will have trouble because th bottle becomes security and not nutrition to the baby. What I did to prepare for this time was to give Jenny a little glass of formular at each meal when she was 7 months old. She was very very messy at first but now she spills very little (I still hold the glass most of the time, but she is showing signs of wanting to go it alone). Now for the older children, I haven't seen this mentioned here but one suggestion I've seen else where is to attach the bottle to something they really love and eventually they will associate the security with the object and not the bottle (teddies and blankets were what the people suggested). Candace
lotto@talcott.UUCP (Jerry Lotto) (02/01/86)
In article <1315@gitpyr.UUCP>, jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (J. Kenneth Riviere) writes: > In article <2904@randvax.UUCP> jeanette@rand-unix.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) writes: > > > >A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. You don't want him > >to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE > >still wants it at that age. > Why not. How does it hurt you? How does it hurt the child? > O, you would be embarrassed because other people believe a child > should be off the bottle by then. Well, if you care more about others > reactions then your childs feelings, thats your, or should I say your > childs, problem. > Jean McSpadden Resisting the impulse to flame all over... I do NOT want my daughter to feel that anything goes if it feels good. Her feelings are most important to me, but I don't want to teach her that they should ALWAYS be most important to HER. She may be a parent someday. Compassion, 'acceptable' behavior and consideration for others must be learned too. How would you feel if your parents had left you to learn that everyone out there doesn't agree with you by setting you up for public ridicule unawares? Or don't you realize how cruel kids can be to each other? -- Gerald Lotto - Harvard Chemistry Dept. UUCP: {seismo,harpo,ihnp4,linus,allegra,ut-sally}!harvard!lhasa!lotto ARPA: lotto@harvard.EDU CSNET: lotto%harvard@csnet-relay
jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (02/03/86)
I, Jean McSpadden, am a guest on this a co-workers account, my opnions are not those of K. Riviere, so please do not send him mail. In article <561@talcott.UUCP> lotto@talcott.UUCP (Jerry Lotto) writes: >In article <1315@gitpyr.UUCP>, jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (Jean McSpadden writes: >> In article <2904@randvax.UUCP> jeanette@rand-unix.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) writes: >> > >> >A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. You don't want him >> >to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE >> >still wants it at that age. >> Why not. How does it hurt you? How does it hurt the child? >> O, you would be embarrassed because other people believe a child >> should be off the bottle by then. Well, if you care more about others >> reactions then your childs feelings, thats your, or should I say your >> childs, problem. >> Jean McSpadden > > Resisting the impulse to flame all over... > >I do NOT want my daughter to feel that anything goes if it feels good. >Her feelings are most important to me, but I don't want to teach her >that they should ALWAYS be most important to HER. She may be a parent >someday. Compassion, 'acceptable' behavior and consideration for others >must be learned too. > >How would you feel if your parents had left you to learn that everyone >out there doesn't agree with you by setting you up for public ridicule >unawares? Or don't you realize how cruel kids can be to each other? >-- > >Gerald Lotto - Harvard Chemistry Dept. > I am sorry about the tone of my last note, it was unnesessary flamish. But, what does a five year olds taking a bottle have to do with compassion and consideration for others, except maybe not embabarrassing Daddy. And I do not see where I was advocating letting children go out in the world unawares of the social norms. However, I do believe that forcing a child to go off the bottle before he is ready to give it up is cruel. If I had a five year old who was still dependent on a bottle, and he was starting school for the first time, I would talk to him telling him that other children might make fun of him if he took the bottle to school and he would be happer if he left it at home. I hope that we would also be going to family therapy by that time, for I do believe that a five year old who is still clinging to the bottle is probally having some emotional problems. The only five year old in my kindergarden who was still on the bottle, at least the only one who brought her bottle to class, lost her mother two years before. None of the rest of us kids made fun of her, we all felt great compassion, kids can feel compassionate too, you know. And we all felt her father was a mean rotten monster when he did finally take it away from her in the first grade. Jean McSpadden -- J. Kenneth Riviere (JoKeR) Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!jkr "I'd rather be conservative than bigoted, but I'd rather be *dead* than conservative!" -Kate from _Kate_and_Allie_
whitehur@tymix.UUCP (Pamela K. Whitehurst) (02/03/86)
In article <1315@gitpyr.UUCP> jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (J. Kenneth Riviere) writes: > A child will potty train himself and he will wean himself, not > *by instinct* but because he wants to be like the people around > him. My niece was potty trained after a few days at her Grandmother's house. It seems her aunts, who were 8 to 12 years old, would take her with them whenever they went to the bathroom (just in care she needed to also). Sometimes being like the big kids is a more reachable goal than being like the adults. -- +-------------------------------------------------------+ | General Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own and | | do not necessarily reflect the opinions | | of McDonnell Douglas Corporation. | +-------------------------------------------------------+ PKW hplabs!oliveb!tymix!whitehur
jeanette@randvax.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) (02/05/86)
In article <1274@mtuxo.UUCP> smuga@mtuxo.UUCP (j.smuga) writes: >> >WHY? WHY? Why does everyone seem to think a child must give up >> >a bottle, a pacifier, a blanket, etc. by some certain age? > >> > >> A child does not do certain things *by instinct*. A child has to be >> prodded, weaned, taught, trained. A child does not say to himself >> "Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave >> ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one >> morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has >> to be trained. >> >Wrong. Children do initiate progress. They want to learn to take >care of themselves. A parent's role is to *help**, not to force them. > Excuse me, but I disagree. There are SOME THINGS that a child will NOT DO on his own. The main interest in a child potty training (and, from what I understand, bottle weaning) is the parents' encouragement. If a child is noticing that his parents are pleased with his actions, he is encouraged. This is not MY OPINION, I have a source, but I have to look it up (newspaper). This is not an instinctive thing a child does. Also, if you recall, I did say that it is wise to check a child's reaction to your training. I was lucky. My son went off the bottle with no problem, until the baby was born. At that time, I was leniant and gave him the bottle again, until he came to the point where he no longer wanted the CUP, then I took the bottle away again, with no problem. (I didn't use any force) I have not yet had the opportunity to try to wean a child that had no interest in giving the bottle up. If our youngest doesn't want to give it up when the time comes, I'll try my best to wean him from it, but I certainly won't force the issue, as that could easily discourage the learning. >> A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. > >Who says so? > Nobody says so, but I, as a parent, am concerned about his teeth, not to mention the fact that without my taking him off the bottle, he could very easily be the oldest child on the block still drinking from one, which is putting him in a situation where he could be teased by other children. >>You don't want him >> to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE >> still wants it at that age. > >He won't. "Who says so." >Anyway, the child in the original example only wanted the >bottle in the evening, as I recall. Sorry, I was generalizing, but I strongly believe (from proof; read other postings on this subject) that eveining bottles (bedtime) are the WORST for the child. You can call me a nasty old witch :-) (please don't!), but I love my son too much to allow his teeth to rot simply because he wanted his bottle at bedtime. >>That is where *you* as a parent comes in. It >> is up to you to decide if you feel he should give up his bottle. HE MAY >> NOT BE READY while he is still relatively young; check his reaction. Most >> children won't give up such comfort without a fight; give him another >> means of comfort. For example, there is a point where a child does not >> need his bottle for nourishment, therefore, it is used for comfort. It is >> YOUR RESPONSIBILITY (not your neighbor's, your mother's, any other >> mother's) to decide whether or not he is getting too old for this. If you >> think he is, see if he is just as happy taking a stuffed animal to bed, >> rather than a bottle. > >Raising children is much easier when you cooperate with them and give >them a chance to cooperate with you. I do cooperate with my son. He's 2-1/2 years old, and I must admit that he loves his mom, however, he also knows not to argue with her. :-) Understand that although most of the above comments stem from articles I have read, but alot are simply my opinion...as a parent, it is my responsibility to have opinions as to what I think is best for my children. It doesn't mean they are correct for someone else, but they seem to work for me. jlh
jeanette@randvax.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) (02/05/86)
In article <561@talcott.UUCP> lotto@talcott.UUCP (Jerry Lotto) writes: >In article <1315@gitpyr.UUCP>, jkr@gitpyr.UUCP (J. Kenneth Riviere) writes: >> In article <2904@randvax.UUCP> jeanette@rand-unix.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) writes: >> > >> >A child HAS to give up the bottle at a certain time. You don't want him >> >to start his first day in kindergarten with his bottle simply because HE >> >still wants it at that age. >> Why not. How does it hurt you? How does it hurt the child? >> O, you would be embarrassed because other people believe a child >> should be off the bottle by then. Well, if you care more about others >> reactions then your childs feelings, thats your, or should I say your >> childs, problem. >> Jean McSpadden > Please, the latter is a rough assumption. But if you must know, my kids come first (before my job or anything) and anything I expressed is for the good of my children. You ask "how does it hurt the child"? You might recall how cruel children can sometimes be to each other (sometimes they LOOK for someone to tease). I don't want my son to be the butt of a 'poke fun session' simply because I ignored my responsibilities when he was younger. jlh
jeanette@randvax.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) (02/07/86)
In article <32700038@hpfcla.UUCP> ajs@hpfcla.UUCP writes: >> "Say, I just turned three, perhaps I should give the bottle the ol'heave >> ho!" This is similar to potty training. A child does not wake up one >> morning and say "Perhaps I shall try the toilet for a change". He has >> to be trained. > >While I agree in general, I must take exception to your example. Our >daughter, now 2 years, 9 months old, is toilet training herself nicely >with very little effort. She DID, one day, just sort of say "perhaps >I'll start to use it most of the time". > You're so lucky. My son is will soon be your daughter's age, and I hope it will go as nicely. In my first comment, I used what I consider a reliable source (my pediatrician), however, kids are different! I do think you are going about it the right way. From what I understand, FORCING a child will most likely turn him/her off. When I say a child has to be TRAINED, I try to put all FORCE aside. Perhaps I should say "strongly encourage".