snell@utzoo.UUCP (Richard Snell) (02/05/86)
>>>Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!bbncca!rrizzo >>>From: rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) >>>Newsgroups: net.motss,net.kids >>>Subject: Gay foster care ban -- bizarre boomerang >>> >>>Months ago articles were posted about what was in effect a ban by the >>>commonwealth of Massachusetts on gay foster care and adoption, adopted >>>by the Dept. of Human Services, countenanced & probably approved by >>>governor Michael Dukakis, a liberal Democrat, and included in a bill >>>backed by many state legislators, again including many liberal Democrats. >>> >>>The latest news is that the two young boys removed from the care of two >>>previously approved gay male foster parents, and placed with a straight >>>woman, may have been sexually molested by the woman's relatives. >>> >>>Today, 100 people rallied in reaction to the news, and speakers lambasted >>>Dukakis. >>> >>> Ron Rizzo >> >>From: snell@utzoo.UUCP (Richard Snell) >> >>Those interested in reading about gay perceptions of the universe >>can always read net.motss. Those who don't want to, will not. >>Please keep these postings there. >>-- >>Name: Richard Snell >>Mail: Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto >> Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A1 >>UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!snell >> >> >Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!cca!leo >From: leo@cca.UUCP (Louise Osterman) >References: <6320@utzoo.UUCP> <1677@bbncca.ARPA> >Organization: Computer Corp. of America, Cambridge >> To Richard Snell: I'll continue posting news about issues involving >> kids to net.kids, whether they involve gay issues or not. If you >> don't like to see messages in the kids newsgroup with gay references, >> well, it's too damn bad. Tough darts, Mr. Snell! >> >> Cheers, >> Ron Rizzo > >Or Mr. Snell could utilize his "n" key. > >Gay issues or not, I have enjoyed Ron Rizzo's postings, whether they were in >net.kids or net.politics. He makes no secret of his gay point of view, and >presents material that is timely and informative, frequently regarding issues >that do affect the gay community that those of us who are not gay may not >otherwise be aware of. Ron Rizzo's postings are an asset to the net. If >you don't agree, hit your "n" key when you see his name as the posting author. > > The original articles, for those who either did not see them, used their *n*key or have forgotten about them by now, are reproduced above. How HORRIBLE of me, and why did I say such a nasty "homophobic" thing? (If it was the "tone" of the article that was found "offensive", my apologies.) 1. The issue seems to be one of politics, not child care. The issue is whether gay couples should be allowed to act as foster/adoptive parents not whether the care they would provide is "good". The point is that the discussion is about "gay rights" not "children". 2. This is net.kids. 3. Let me paint a hypothetical scenario. Would it be relevant here? -->A "black" couple in South Africa subjected to a moderated apartheid policy which may be in effect in the near future... and who might be given a "white" child to "foster/adopt" then have the child taken away because of their skin colour, not because of the quality of childcare being provided. People have demonstrations, and so on. A hot "flash" is posted to net.kids. Would the issue be relevant in net.kids? I would think not. This issue would again be political, not children per se. The place for the discussion would presumably be net.politics or net.apartheid. Would suggesting this make me a racist? Good grief: I would hope not. 4. Ms. Osterman states "Mr. Rizzo... presents material that is timely and informative, frequently regarding issues that do affect the gay community that those of us who are not gay may not otherwise be aware of. Ron Rizzo's postings are an asset to the net." No argument there. But this is net.kids. Why do certain gay individuals feel obliged to keep non-gays posted on issues that affect the gay community? Why not keep us aware of every issue perceived to be important to EVERY community? Why not cross-post every single net.article to all news.groups? Why not just have net.general? Again, people on the net know how to access net.motss. If I want to read "timely and informative" articles on that or any other subject, I will certainly do so. Everyone else will too. I could ship over articles from the net.micro groups I read, they are "timely and informative" too, and any readers of net.kids who are not interested could use their *n* key. However, I shall not. Perhaps this will elicit more flames, preferably email ones. Hopefully this will not stir up a volume of entries tieing up a newsgroup devoted to issues about children for the next while. P.S. I note that Ron Rizzo is currently (most recent entry) being flamed in net.motss by someone who asks him to "Please find a net.nicaragua elsewhere". -- Name: Richard Snell Mail: Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A1 UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!snell
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (02/07/86)
Re: R. Snelling's 5.1k message: I still don't see a valid point; I think his search for criteria of exclusion/relevance for net.kids smacks of phobia, & doesn't even reflect actual contents/usage of this newsgroup (as far as I know). I doubt any "charter" for the group that may exist or be implicit excludes in the way Mr. Snelling seems to want it to. It's really torturing the meaning of "child care" to claim the Mass. foster care controversy isn't a child care issue. If not, what, pray tell, is it? (Oh, I know! It's a "gay political issue." Thanks for the enlightenment.) Advice on how to change diapers is not the only valid subject for net.kids. This is my last meta-mail message. Honest! Apologies. Regards, Ron Rizzo