ktw@whuxi.UUCP (WOLMAN) (01/07/85)
There are things far worse than the occasional open palm applied to the rear end. In my house, spankings are rare, and are delivered for only two reasons: 1) impressing on our sons that a physical danger attaches to certain activities, e.g., putting one's fingers in a light socket, stepping off the curb into traffic without looking, etc. (I know, cover the sockets, and we did that, but there are tons of household dangers you can't protect against except to warn); and 2) outright verbal and/or physical disrespect of our persons by our children. The latter these days is far more likely to generate a swat that the former. When I am forced to spank, I do so quickly. I do not yell at the kids at that point, and try not to express or show anger in such a way that their SELF-WORTH is compromised. I grew up in a home in which the chief weapon of discipline was contempt; it was far more wounding than a spanking. Thus, immediately afterwards I try to hug the child in question and explain--if he's listening at that point--why he "got it." I have never had a situation where a grudge was carried for more than five minutes. Spanking is a "last resort." But it is one that can be effective is used judiciously, without spiritual malice, and at the right time. Obviously, there is much more that can be said, and I'm sure it will be. Ken Wolman Bellcore @ Livingston [now at] lcuxc!kenw
dubois@uwmacc.UUCP (Paul DuBois) (01/15/85)
> [Ken Arndt] > I can only tell you what has worked for me. I have spanked upon occasion > so that they know that I WILL if needed. It is the kiss of death to SAY > you will and then don't. And kids will call you! Try (I can't always) Right you are. Kids want consistency. They don't want baloney. Which is what we as parents are giving them if we say we're going to do something and then don't do it. We're not doing them any favors by giving them such a bad example. We might think we're being nice to them, but we're training them that they can say one thing and do another (and we expect them to keep *their* word, right?). > not to spank when angry. Set the pace of the escalation yourself. Spank > up front BEFORE you get all out of sorts with the kid. (It's hard!) Right again. One thing that's important is not to get to the state where you're threatening the child with a spanking if they don't obey. Disobedience should be met with discipline immediately. Why? Because if the child obeys only after receiving a threat, you're training him to obey THREATS, and not to recognize your authority. There's a difference. Discipline is a method for enforcement of authority (yours), not a bargaining tool. Otherwise, they'll drag it out longer and longer, to see how long before you break. -- Paul DuBois {allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!dubois | "And the streets shall be full of boys and girls playing --+-- in the streets thereof..." | Zechariah 8:5 |
rwh@aesat.UUCP (Russ Herman) (01/18/85)
From the Toronto _Globe and Mail_, Friday Jan. 18, 1985
FOSTER CARE REGULATION TO PROHIBIT SPANKING
Dorothy Lipovenko
The Ontario Government plans to ban corporal punishment of foster children ...
The new policy will prohibit foster families from using corporal punishment -
spanking, hitting, pushing, or shoving - as a means of discipline, even
though child welfare officials acknowledge that an increasing number of older,
hard-to-handle children are being placed into foster care.
...
Greg O'Neill, Ontario's foster care co-ordinator, said the new discipline
rules are an extension of Government policy prohibiting the use of corporal
punishment by staff in day-care centres, training schools and other
provincially financed operations for children.
"When a child comes into care, he doesn't have the protection of his own
family", Mr. O'Neill said yesterday. "It is the responsibility of the state
to ... find the means of dealing with that child's behavior."
He said the ministry "will not back down" on its position, even though
child-welfare agencies are divided on whether foster parents have the right
to use force to discipline a child.
Some parents resort to overzealous physical discipline because of stress and
burnout, Mr. O'Neill said. To reduce the potential for using corporal
punishment, the ministry is recommending that foster families be given more
support services such as baby sitting, parent relief and visits by a
homemaker or child care worker.
--
______ Russ Herman
/ \ {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!aesat!rwh
@( ? ? )@
( || ) The opinions above are strictly personal, and
( \__/ ) do not reflect those of my employer (or even
\____/ possibly myself an hour from now.)marks@yogi.DEC (02/24/86)
Like religion and politics, this seems one of those sacrosanct subjects about which nobody's mind is ever really changed. Seems to me that in most cases, them's who were spanked spank and them's who weren't don't. I wasn't and I haven't. My kids are really nice teenagers. I feel and have always felt spanking really is more of a benefit to the spanker than to the spankee. 'Nuff said.
drew@ukma.UUCP (Andrew Lawson) (02/28/86)
In article <58@randvax.UUCP> jeanette@rand-unix.UUCP (Jeanette Haritan) writes: >In article <239@hoqax.UUCP> twb@hoqax.UUCP (BEATTIE) writes: >>While I don't think an occasional spanking is particularly >>harmful, I also don't think it is necessary. >>I feel a child can understand your disaproval of their behavior >>thru your tone of voice >> >True, but pretty soon the child realizes that the tone of voice is just >mommy and/or daddy spouting off again.:-) I really believe that a >spanking will benefit more, simply because it stings more, and the child >doesn't become bored with the discipline, for example, you can yell 'till >you're blue in the face, and (I've had it happen) the child develops a >smug look (thar she blows!). He's BORED! He knows that that is the worst >it will get. >When I whack his buns, HE KNOWS "hey...I think I blew it!). > Here I agree with the latter view, at least in my situation. I have a five year old who is very strong willed. Usually, the stern talking to stops whatever the problem is, however, after a few times of being talked to in a short time, she hardly notices. Then the spanking (calm - not a sudden attack) gets her back in line. The odd thing about it is that she doesn't seem to mind the actual pain of the spanking nearly as much as the unavoidable recognition that she got caught and is not in charge. Again, this is my own situation. I'm new to the business (instant family) and don't know whether this is unusual. -- Drew Lawson cbosgd!ukma!drew "Parts is parts." drew@uky.csnet drew@UKMA.BITNET
rlneal@ihlpl.UUCP (Neal) (02/28/86)
I agree wholeheartedly with Caspian. I also agree with what someone else suggested-- that you make the child sit in a chair for couple of minutes to think about the error of their ways before the spanking. This lets the parent calm down somewhat, which is sometimes very much needed. I also thought I would add my own 2 cents. When our oldest was just learning to ride a big wheel, staying off the street was not a problem for him. But when the next child came along and started to ride a big wheel it seemed he wanted to ride down the driveway and into the street. It took about 5 spankings all within a few days before he learned. I am sure a "stern talking to" would not have made much of an impression on him. I also feel that the "punishment should fit the crime". When our kids (2 years apart) were crawlers, they would not leave the knobs alone on my stereo. A couple slaps on the hand of the oldest one and he learned not to touch. Then the next one came along. He *would not* leave them alone. I tried putting it up high on the upright piano. He climbed up to it. After a number of "talkings to" and slaps on his hand, I finally gave up and put it in a box in the closet. Like I said the "punishment should fit the crime".
cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) (03/03/86)
Aw, what the heck! Everyone else is giving advice on good parenting.
I'll do my best to give you reason to question my sanity!
As I was growing up, I was spanked. Infrequently. I can't think of
more than five or six times that I can remember being spanked by my
parents. It was almost always done by my father (probably a good
thing, since he was the calmest person I've ever met), and was just
about always done because of some willful action that was utterly
without good reason and was stupid.
As an example, I had an argument with my mother about something when
I was around 8. (The last time I was ever spanked.) The original
argument I don't remember, and I think it must have been pretty
inconsequential. I went into the bathroom and proceeded to unroll
an entire roll of toilet paper onto the floor -- greatly reducing its
usefulness. (We were not a wealthy family, by any means, and I'm sure
they were upset at the waste of the paper more than the defiance.)
My father spanked me with his hand, against my bare bottom, about five
or six times. It hurt. A lot. And I learned that this sort of utter
waste to express my anger was NOT acceptable under any circumstances.
My wife was brought up in a somewhat more traditional home. She was
spanked A LOT. Her father lost his temper, and engaged in punishments
that seem to me to be extreme -- but not child abuse. Unfortunately,
my wife was being punished for the actions of her older brother who had
terrorized her into taking blame for his mindless destruction of the
house they lived in.
When my wife was pregnant, the two of us talked a lot about punishment
and how it should be done. I argued this way:
Until a child is capable of some emotional maturity and reasoning,
a spanking may be the only way to make them not do something which
endangers them or others. Therefore, spanking can be appropriate
for some situtations. If a child gets to be 10 years old, and you
still have to spank them, you've made a serious mistake somewhere
earlier on.
A child should not be required to agree with every decision. A
child should be allowed to argue the validity of a decision, and if
they can demonstrate that they are right, the parent should back down.
(As my parents did, frequently.)
My wife had what seemed to me to be a rather Neanderthal approach to
the subject. It was close to a, "spank 'em hard and spank 'em long"
attitude.
Now that our daughter is two, and trying to assert her independence,
we actually have to involve ourselves in the process of teaching her
how to behave. We spank her for the following things:
1. Behavior which she has repeatedly been told is inappropriate.
(Example: writing in books that are "Mommy's" or "Daddy's".)
2. Life or limb threatening actions. (She frequently insists that
she is quite capable of crossing streets and parking lots without
us holding her hand, and thirty feet away from us. She gets
spanked. I know, many of you think that shows a lack of love.)
We want her to make it to an age where we can rationally
communicate with her. It is true that when we are in a parking
lot we can carry her, without spanking her. But sometime we
may be inattentive for whatever reason -- we can't watch her
all the time, she has to learn, by whatever means are necessary,
that she can't do some dangerous things. (This also includes the
time she started playing with a paperclip and an electric outlet,
and the time she crawled into our refrigerator while moving and
closed the door behind her.)
3. Direct defiance of an order. The reason for this is that, while
at some point I expect her to be able to reason things out for
herself, and debate an issue, if I DO give an order, it is likely
to be something in the life-and-limb category.
My wife hates to hear Hilary cry. As a result, she has a hard time
spanking her. I don't have a problem spanking my daughter because,
why it really rips me up to hear her cry, I know that our administration
of spanking is fair, reasonable, and designed to assist her in becoming
a self-disciplined and ALIVE adult.
I have a sister who never spanked the kids. She and her husband lived
in Berkeley. The kids wrote on the walls because my sister and
brother-in-law didn't want to stifle their creativity. The oldest
became a serious drug (cocaine) problem briefly at 11 (hey, this is
Berkeley), and all of them were the most unpleasant, impolite, rude,
and selfish little brats you can imagine. I am happy to report that
my sister has overcome her attitudes about spanking, and they are fast
approaching civilized behavior for kids their age.abd1@ur-tut.UUCP (Al) (03/04/86)
We have two boys, ages 2 & 3. Spanking and threatening to spank
were our primary form of punishment for both boys until they started
going to a babysitter who has four children of her own. She makes
them stand in a corner for a half minute or so with great results.
The time in the corner is by no means "timed", and the kids know
when it's ok to come out. And they usually do with tears and arms
wide spread. The "threat" of being sent to the corner and "being"
sent to the corner is much more effective, for us than spanking,
usually. I'm not saying that they still don't get spanked anymore,
because they do; but a lot less frequently.
Al Dunn