snell@utzoo.UUCP (Richard Snell) (03/04/86)
This is more than my share of postings recently...
Some time ago I requested info on daycare: specifically where, when and why
(6326@utzoo.UUCP).
The interest was personal, not academic. Our son has been cared for by an
in-home-caregiver up to now, from age 8 months and on. We will soon
put him in a day-care (there is a good non-profit one where my wife works).
This has not been cheap, and it is financial constraints which necessitate
the change. Governments can run deficit budgets forever,
but not individuals...
If we could afford it, and one of our careers could easily survive it, one
of us would stay home until he is about 4. Instead, we decided to wait until
he was walking well, and talking well enough to express some of his needs
to people who don't really know him too well. (Children have great non-verbal
signals to indicate what they need, but you have to know the child to
know his/her particular signals.) Too many pre-walkers/pre-talkers seem
to get lost in the fray in day-care/outside home-care settings.
We did not want that to happen (it may anyway, of course...).
A sincere thankyou to all who responded. I feel somewhat guilty
about making public postings of email. It is a question with some
sticky ethical implications: is email (even when solicited in a "will
be summarized to the net" style) private? Is it a violation of privacy
to make it public without explicit permissions to do so? Is such
permission simply implied, and that is enough? I do not know.
(If you did *not* want your reply posted on the net, you have my apologies.)
===================================================================
From: Anonymous (by request).
1) Choices
(a) relatives--not very viable choice for us
(b) neighbors, individuals--not my first choice originally
(c) organized child care
(d) co-ops
2) What we did
(a) while in New York, one one year old--
Went with a child-care start-up; individual supported
by NJ county day care service (semi-government sponsored,
not sure of details); worked great as individual
starting the day care was extremely good, and her
workers were good as well;
why?? cost was reasonable, convenience was among the
best of the alternatives, but more importantly, the
woman's sincerity and interest was very obvious, both
in how she acted towards us, as well as the way she
acted towards here own family (kids were grown, but
at home).
(b) in another State, one at 1.5 years, one at 3 years--
Went with a neighbor. Relatives were closer, but still
not acceptable (smoking, age, etc.); organized child care
was used briefly, but it was inconvenient (location,
but more importantly, during the few snow days) and
costly; considered a nearby co-op, but time-cost for
two kids was high.
why? Neighbor was a former teacher, had a child in between
our two, Mormon (brought along good habits; no other
meaning intended), reasonably priced, and EXTREMELY
convenient and flexible (same apartment building, etc.)
3) When--when necessary, with every effort made to NOT use child care
until each was at the one-year old mark. Ya' gotta spend that first year
with them. Oh yes, while in NY, my wife kept our new born while I worked,
then I kept her while my wife attended school in the evenings. You don't
have to enter a monastery for that first year, though it is a bit rougher.
Also, after second one came of age and we tried organized day care, I
worked 4 day weeks (10 hour days) so I could watch the kids one day and
reduce costs somewhat.
Points to keep in mind--
Relatives may not be ideal as it may at first seem. Thinking about
some "grandmas" I've seen in my lifetime, the best word I've seen to
describe some of them is "sadistic". The little old lady might not
be able to stop watching the soaps long enough to really spend time
with the kids, or worse yet, may destroy them mentally due to their
own inabilities to deal with kids rationally. I don't think I've
expressed this quite right, but if you ever consider an older individual
for child care, drop me a line and I'll try again to get my point across.
Organized day care can be looked at more rationally. One thing to
really think about is how important flexibility is to you. What happens
if a kid is sick. What happens when local schools close due to inclement
weather. Can they deal with 7 to 4 some days, and 9 to 6 others, if
the need arises. Etc.
Individuals require the most attention. Ya' gotta be sure before you
trust them with your kids. We had a very brief experience with one
that was a bit imbalanced in New York, and it really left an impression
on my wife (I've always been cynical about individual goodness, while
my wife needed waking up on how bad some people can be.) Don't go with
an individual unless you really KNOW the person. Don't even go with
a person that someone you know knows. YOU have to know them to imagine
how they will react with your kids. Get the discipline rules out on
the table from the start (spankings vs. timeouts vs. general devastation
vs. etc.). Establish guidelines on how much notice each party needs
to terminate the arrangement or to alter the schedule.
Good luck
(but more importantly, treat this like the important decision that
it appears to be to you).
========================================================================
From: ihnp4!mtuxo!smuga (j.z.smuga)
Before my kids were school age I worked and went to school evenings
and weekends, when my husband could be with them.
When my younger child started kindergarden, I went to work full time.
(Couldn't stand poverty any more. Our visa cardbalance kept getting
bigger, and we had barely enough cash for groceries after our bills
were paid. I got tired of saying no to things the kids wanted, tired
of making do.) I hadn't planned on full time work so soon; my
daughter had only a half day of school. It was a sudden impulse.
I hired a sitter who would come to my home. My younger child had
school from 12:15 to 2:45; the older one started at 8:45. The sitter
could drive each of them to school and pick them up after. It seemed
like the best possible arrangement, but there were drawbacks. The
kids disliked the sitter, who spent much of her time watching soap
operas. She smoked, which made our house stink. The woman was
handicapped (left-side paralysis due to a stroke) at an early age, and
she obviously felt sorry for herself. She also was unable to cope
with bad weather. If it snowed during the day, she wanted me to come
home early. My younger child, who had always been a cheerful early
riser, stopped wanting to get out of bed in the morning. I fired the
sitter that winter and hired another.
The second sitter was a college student recovering from injuries
suffered in an automobile accident. Her only obvious disability was a
slight limp. At first the kids loved her. But she got bored with
sitting in our house. She got into the habit of bringing them to her
own house and plonking them in front of the tv. By midsummer it
became obvious to me that she regarded them as something of a
nuisance, so I gently suggested to her that she might not want to keep
the job once school had startd again. She agreed.
My present sitter lives across the street from the kids' school. Both
children go for the full day now; my little one is in first grade. I
drop them off at the sitter's house on my way to work (well, almost on
my way) and pick them up when I come home. They can walk to and from
school there. The sitter has no car and does not drive. Once a week I
have a taxi pick them up and take them to a gymnastics class. This
sitter also is not ideal, although the kids are happier with her than
with the others. She watches other children as well, and keeps the
television on constantly. My third-grader complains that she can't do
her homework there.
What we look forward to is the day when the kids will be old enough to
look after themselves. That is what they would really prefer: to be
in their own home. They are both well-behaved, reliable kids. I need
some guideline to help me decide when they can do that.
Today the schools are closed on account of snow. I thoughtlessly
delivered my kids to the sitter at the usual time, without first
calling to see if she could take them for the whole day. She let me
know she was annoyed.
I'm curious to know why you are asking these questions. Are you
looking into childcare for your own family, or is your interest
academic?
I think it's obvious that a daycare center would not have filled my
needs. There is a "latchkey" program at the local Y, but my kids do
not car for the Y. (On the other hand, they don't seem to care much
for sitters either, do they.)
======================================================================
{ ihnp4!utzoo pesnta utcs hcr decvax!utcsri } !lsuc!dave
> 1. what people have perceived their choices to have been.
There are no organized day-cares in our city which are kosher
(major importance to us) and take children under 2 years. Ariela was
14 months when Simone went back to work. So the options were
- get a live-in
- get a live-out babysitter to come in every day
- leave her with someone
> 2. what they actually decided to do, and why.
We found a lady who runs a day-care in her home (~5 kids)
who is kosher.
We decided we didn't want the intrusion of a live-in. Also, having
anyone in our house would have run into the question of whether
that person kept kosher. Most domestics aren't Jewish, and though
some of our friends have no problems with this (i.e., as long as they
instruct the person regarding what's involved in a kosher kitchen),
we weren't comfortable with the idea.
It also turns out that the lady our child is with is well-qualified,
gives the kids lots of interesting things to do. etc.
> 3. when did they decide to begin it, in terms of the child's age.
14 months. We had no particular plans, but our new sitter (who is a C.A.
and was working at home) saw an ad for a position she was interested
in, and took the job. This was in June 1985.
Our new sitter will be off in another
month or so to have another baby, but we'll probably continue to take
our daughter to her daycare a few days a week.
=======================================================================
From: Mark Weiser <clyde!ulysses!seismo!mimsy.umd.edu!umcp-cs!mark>
In article <6326@utzoo.UUCP> you write:
>
>1. what people have perceived their choices to have been.
>2. what they actually decided to do, and why.
>3. when did they decide to begin it, in terms of the child's age.
>
This was a real toughie. We both felt that we wanted to do as much of the
child caring for our children as we could. When I was a grad student
with a new baby, this meant a crib in my office and some very helpful and
long suffering office mates. It has also meant prizing flexibility in hours
in any work situation over salary or career advancement.
Our first child went to fulltime Monetessori school at age 2.2. This
was probably a little early: I now wish, based on this unscientific sample of
one, that we had more time with her during age 2. But it was my
first job after the PhD and no one was sure how flexible I or my wife would
be able to be with job hours. In fact she ended up without much choice of
hours, but I ended up a professor with close to infinite flexibility
(including many a class taught with a child by my side).
Our second child went to half day nursery school at age 2.2, and Montessori
at age 3. She seems better adjusted than the first, but who knows why.
(age 4 now).
I think the most important factor in any school situation is the
individual person doing the teaching. A good teacher can make the most
terrible educational philosophy good, and ruin the best philosophy.
In looking for private schools our strategy has been to: get recommendations
from friends if possible, looks for schools that prize their teachers,
and then visit individual classrooms until we spot someone we want for our
child, and then go for them. As much as possible we have done this with
the public schools for our oldest, but it is harder there, and all the
principals cringe when they hear our name.
Best of luck!
=====================================================================
From: Margaret E. Craft <linus!peg>
Choices:
- someone to come to my house
this costs a LOT
- take baby to someone's house
- cay care center
What I chose:
_for baby #1:
Care in my home for 2 months (with light housekeeping
chores too), then
family day care (in her home).
Why? New England winter is not a nice time to drag newborns
around. Extra exposure to cold and other germs in
newborn. And - I could afford it for the short term.
_for baby #2:
Straight into the family day care.
Why? With older child there, exposure to germs was going to
happen regardless. And I could not afford in-house
even for short term.
Age begun:
Six weeks, in both cases. That's all the maternity leave my
company pays for. And, as a single mother, I have few choices
othr than to work. I do have a 6 hour day, which helps with
sanity, if not with finances! (I get zero child support.)
Cost:
Now, $100/week for two kids, 7 1/2 hours a day.
WHen I had inhouse, I paid $125/week for one baby + light
housekeeping.
===================================================================
From: ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!mprvaxa!vickery (Francine Vickery)
I have two kids, ages 10 months and 2 3/4. Aside from my maternity leaves of
24 weeks each, I have been working full time. We have tried
a) leaving the kid at a daycare for a while
b) leaving the kid at a family day care
c) having a nanny
I by far prefer the nanny route (providing you have a good one). Linda has
been with us almost 2 years (in july) and is great. Besides looking after the
kids and doing a great job she cooks, cleans, does the laundry and all those
things you have to do around the house when you don't have a nanny. It leaves
all my time at home free to pursue other interests such as time with my kids
etc. All this service costs me about as much as it would cost in a commercial
day care and I think my kids are getting the next best thing to moms personal
care (maybe even better!).
Hope this answers your question
==========================================================================
From: ihnp4!hplabs!hpda!hppcgo!kwheeler (Kathy Wheeler)
Hello...
I am an electrical engineer working in California, as well as,
the proud mother of a growing boy who will be one year old Feb 23rd.
You might find my experiences with child care interesting.
Before I had our son, my husband and I made the decision that I
would go back to work when the baby was three months old.
We also decided on an in-house care provider. Our reasons were:
o one to one care
o control over the care provider
o if baby is ill, there's someone to take care of him
o perceived sense that an in-house provider is the next best thing
to mom or dad being home
o can stay extra hours in an emergency
We acquired our nanny through an agency which specializes in placing nannies.
Consequently, the lady we hired had had her references carefully checked
and was highly recommended. We used her services with no complaints
until our son was ten months old.
The main reasons for looking into day care facilities were:
o a nanny is expensive ($5/hr)
o Kyle was ready for new experiences/social interactions which the nanny
couldn't provide
o didn't want Kyle to become anxious around strangers/new situations.
We looked at both day care homes and day care centers.
I do not recommend day care homes. They were:
o Unstructured/disorganized
o Inconsistent
o Facilities dependent on economic welfare of the provider (which was
usually less than desirable)
They did not leave us with a warm and fuzzy feeling following the interviews.
We interviewed two day care centers. The center we chose came
highly recommended through an acquaintance. The center has infant
thru school age programs. The infant program was located in three
large rooms with one dedicated to naps. There are plenty
of toys, matresses to crawl on and mirrors/windows on baby's level.
In other words, lots of stimulation. The toddler program is similarly
organinzed. The children all appear to be alert,
interested and well cared for.
One and a half months later, I do not regret the decision to put
our son in this day care center. He has noticeably picked up things
from other children, namely:
o lots of viruses/colds (definitely a minus for the short term, but it does
build up their immune systems)
o new games/types of play
o more communication (mostly babbling, but he thinks he's talking)
o more interest/curiosity in other children
(including looking out for himself and 'his' toys.
It may be that this particular day care center is exceptional
but I have been very pleased. The cost is expensive ($520/mo)
but goes down to $310/mo at 2 years. They maintain a ratio of
4 babies to 1 care provider which is less than California requires
by law (6 to 1 max). I would look for a center with a similar ratio;
it makes a difference in the quality of care provided.
If I had it to do over (and I probably will in another two years),
I would have stayed home until Kyle was six months.
I then would have put him in day care for half a day and worked part-time.
The care provided at day care is as good as that provided
by the nanny. The major disadvantage is that they will not care
for your baby if he/she is sick.
The basic advice that I got from my pediatrician was that if you're
going to put your baby in day care, do it before they are 6 months old.
This is because seperation anxiety gets severe from 6 months to 2 years.
You may not be able to leave your baby in
day care without emotional distress.
The two basic pieces of advice I have about finding good day care and
feeling comfortable about leaving your child in their care is:
o keep your standards high and make sure your day care solution meets
those standards
o talk to your friends/neighbors about what they recommend for day care
facilities. Support groups for new mothers sometimes are a good re-
source for suggestions.
Good Luck!!
======================================================================
From: Tom Putnam <watmath!floyd!inuxc!pur-ee!pucc-j!ac4>
I am a full time manager in a computing center, and my wife is a
full time associate professor at the university.
>1. what people have perceived their choices to have been.
Giving up the career was not even considered by either of us.
My wife has some flexibility in daytime hours, but not much.
Choice was not whether to find help, but where and how...
* In the home...
Hard to find good people. If you do, it can cost a lot.
Also, my wife does a lot of work at home - too many people wander
in and want to shoot the breeze if she goes to her office.
So, our home is not our first choice.
* Organized daycare centers...
Most of these don't take kids until they are 2+ (i.e. potty trained).
They expose kids to lots of shared colds, flus, etc. -- not what you
want with an infant. Also hard to find quality people and care.
* Babysitting in someone else's home...
This seems to be the easiest to find, although most of the people
who do it are not at all professional, so you have to be very careful
in selecting the person. If the person does not want to work on your
schedule or full time, you have to worry about negotiating these things.
If the person gets sick, you need to have a backup person available.
>2. what they actually decided to do, and why.
We found a woman with two kids of her own that wanted to take one or
two other children. She has a degree in child development and has
professional daycare experience. There is no doubt in my mind that
she gives our daughter more creative and stimulating things to do
each day than I could ever think of. Having established this setup,
we feel VERY fortunate and pay her $80/week for 4 days. We had an
opportunity to move for professional advancement and turned it down
because we felt it unlikely that we could find equivalent care.
>3. when did they decide to begin it, in terms of the child's age.
We started at age 3 months. (Our daughter was born in May, and
my wife had to start back to work in late August).
===================================================
From: linus!cca!harvard!bunny!tbc0 (Theresa Campbell)
My husband and I found a terrific spot for Nathan when he
was 9 weeks old. We found Gerri through a friend's mom -
it was nice knowing that someone we trusted had recommended her.
She is the mother of two children (ages 2 and 3) and Nathan
quickly became something of a baby brother. Since he is currently
an only child, we felt it was a good experience for him to be with
other children.
Now the sad part. Gerri has given us notice that she wishes to
stop taking care of Nathan (she has been taking care of other people's
kids for 13 years and simly wants to concentrate on taking care of
her own for a while).
Our search has begun anew. Nathan is now 1 year old; finding day care
at this point in no easier from a logistic standpoint but this mom
is emotionally better equipped to deal with the transition than she
was 10 months ago.
We called close to 30 of the names of day-care mothers provided
to us by the local office for children. One of the 30 agreed
to an interview. She turned out to be a chain-smoking women
who thought that loud MTV on during the interview at her home
was ok. We didn't feel right about pursuing her as an option.
Now we are looking at a day care center (45 dollars more per week
than what we currently pay).
That's our story - good luck to you.
=================================================
--
Name: Richard Snell
Mail: Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5S 1A1
UUCP: {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!snelldave@lsuc.UUCP (David Sherman) (03/05/86)
I don't really mind Richard Snell posting my mail to him, but he took the liberty of changing my wife's name into the string "our new sitter", apparently thinking that would make the text clearer. In fact, it turns it into nonsense. > ====================================================================== [initial text explains why Simone and I chose to leave Ariela with a lady who runs a day-care in her home] > > 3. when did they decide to begin it, in terms of the child's age. > > 14 months. We had no particular plans, but our new sitter (who is a C.A. > and was working at home) saw an ad for a position she was interested > in, and took the job. This was in June 1985. > Our new sitter will be off in another > month or so to have another baby, but we'll probably continue to take > our daughter to her daycare a few days a week. > > ======================================================================= Since I like to be thought of as someone capable of writing intelligibly, let me correct that to what I originally wrote and update it: > 14 months. We had no particular plans, but Simone (who is a C.A. > and was working at home) saw an ad for a position she was interested > in, and took the job. This was in June 1985. Simone will be off in a > few hours to have another baby, but we'll probably continue to take > Ariela to her daycare a few days a week. Dave Sherman -- { ihnp4!utzoo pesnta utcs hcr decvax!utcsri } !lsuc!dave