vorth@gt-stratus.UUCP (Scott Vorthmann) (12/20/85)
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Is there any interest out there for a newsgroup (or two) devoted to
structure/syntax-directed/language-oriented editors and/or integrated
programming/software-engineering environments? I'm posting this to the
two newsgroups I believe might hold the largest number of interested
readers. For Ada, this might amount to a newsgroup for discussing APSE's;
for Modula-2, there are already 1 or 2 products available which provide
more than just a compiler, and are certainly worthy of discussion.
Well, how about it? I have a vested interest, since I'm doing my
thesis work in this area, but I know there are lots of places (mostly
academic) working on such.
Please note: I'd be delighted to hear from anyone by mail, but I'm
not doing any type of formal interest survey. I just want to generate
interest; I don't have the know-how to spur formation of the desired
newsgroups.
Scott Vorthmann
USMail: The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
ATT: (404) 894-6170 (work), (404) 872-9995 (home)
CSNet: Vorth @ GATech ARPA: Vorth%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA
uucp: ...!{akgua,allegra,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,seismo,ulysses}!gatech!vorthmg@timpit0.UUCP (Michel Gien) (12/23/85)
> for Modula-2, there are already 1 or 2 products available which provide > more than just a compiler, and are certainly worthy of discussion. What are these products you are refering to ? Michel Gien {..!seismo!mcvax!vmucnam!mg}
dick@ucsfcca.UUCP (Dick Karpinski) (01/01/86)
In article <213@gt-stratus.UUCP> vorth@gt-stratus.UUCP (Scott Vorthmann) writes: > Is there any interest out there for a newsgroup (or two) devoted to >structure/syntax-directed/language-oriented editors and/or integrated There sure is some interest. I have always heard that language oriented editors were a pain to use. That is what I heard about the ITC Modula oriented editor too, though to be fair, some folks do like it. For myself, and the UCSD Pascal community, I have written a set of ASE macros for the better version of the standard UCSD editor. With ASE and the macros, three or four keystrokes can install another while loop, if test, or whatever with consistent indentation and commenting built in. The last point saves me from ever writing END; END; END. Wanna know any more? Dick -- Dick Karpinski Manager of Unix Services, UCSF Computer Center UUCP: ...!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!dick (415) 666-4529 (12-7) BITNET: dick@ucsfcca Compuserve: 70215,1277 Telemail: RKarpinski USPS: U-76 UCSF, San Francisco, CA 94143
vorth@gt-stratus.UUCP (Scott Vorthmann) (01/03/86)
In article <432@ucsfcca.UUCP> dick@ucsfcca.UUCP (Dick Karpinski) writes: > >... For myself, and the UCSD Pascal community, I have >written a set of ASE macros for the better version of the standard >UCSD editor. With ASE and the macros, three or four keystrokes >can install another while loop, if test, or whatever with consistent >indentation and commenting built in. The last point saves me from >ever writing END; END; END. First of all, building a program in a text editor, then handing it to a compiler is NOT what I'm talking about. The type of system I'm interested in guides the programmer through a top-down construction of his program; syntax errors are simply IMPOSSIBLE, and the better systems perform semantic checks and generate code WHILE you are 'editing' your program. The traditional edit-compile-link-run loop can be closed almost completely, if the system additionally provides an interpreter/debugger which can be executed on any part of a program being constructed, at any time. Sound good? It does to me. Research into this area has been going on for at least 6 years. CMU and Cornell (and possibly others I haven't heard of) have releases of their systems available, and many other places are working on the idea. It seems that public knowledge of the existence (let alone the capabilities) of SDE-based development environments is limited, at best. (Please, no indignant flames about that.) For that very reason, I propose a newsgroup dedicated to such ideas. I possess neither the knowledge nor the presumptuousness to establish a newsgroup. If enough interest is indicated in this and other newsgroups, maybe we can get one started. C'mon people, lets hear it!
murlocker@watmath.UUCP (murlocker) (01/04/86)
> > for Modula-2, there are already 1 or 2 products available which provide > > more than just a compiler, and are certainly worthy of discussion. > > What are these products you are refering to ? > Interface Technologies of houston texas has an interactive modula-2 system m2sds which is available for $80.88 (get it?) or less if you trade in your old compiler. However, everyone I've spoken to about this product (including several authors of modula books) was disappointed with the reliability and lack of flexibility of the system. IT is offering a money back guarantee on the latest release of m2sds and has a migration path to a development quality system. Another modula system is available from Logitech, at under $100. Although its not a closely integrated system, their editor does syntax checking and has macros for the entry of modula constructs. You can compile and link from the editor, and there is a source code debugger avaiable. This may be the type of evolutionary product that users of traditional systems would be more likely to adopt. Software Channels has started an all out marketing campaign for a very impressive syntax-directed pascal environment called ALICE. Although its interpreter-based, performance is adequate for educational/prototype purposes. A compiler may be available in the future. A demo disk is available for $5. Look for the full page ad featuring an unlikely looking female hackette (where's her coffee?). mark