dwz@rruxu.UUCP (D. W. Zobre) (01/23/85)
I have a construction question. After all components of a piece of work have been cut out and fitted, is it better to stain each component before final assembly, or stain the whole thing at once? The underlying question is in regard to eliminating glue lines, where glue has been absorbed where not wanted, verses the bonding strength of glue over stain. Is there a right way and a wrong way, or it doesn't make any difference? Thanks in advance for any comments. rruxu!dwz Don Zobre (201)699-3115
saf@clyde.UUCP (Steve Falco) (01/24/85)
> I have a construction question. After all components of a > piece of work have been cut out and fitted, is it better to > stain each component before final assembly, or stain the whole > thing at once? An interesting question. I much prefer to stain after assembly. In the first place, I generally need/want to do some final sanding to get the joints perfect (I build guitars as well as furnature). Staining first wouldn't work. I don't know that stained wood takes glue poorly but I expect it would especially with an oily stain. In any case, I don't know of any factories which stain first. A trick I have used successfully when I want to use a lot of glue (to be sure I've got 100% coverage) yet can't afford "squeeze-out" is to apply masking tape so that the wood surrounding the joint is protected. Once the items are clamped, the excess glue just peels off with the tape. By the way, the thick, yellow carpenters glue tends to wash off "close grain" woods like maple very well with warm water if you get to it quickly. Mahogany and other "deep grain" woods require a lot of water to flush the glue out. Better not to get it on the wood in the first place. There is one more factor. You don't always need a penetrating stain. If you are trying to enhance the grain, then a penetrating stain is needed. If, however, you just want a darker tone, you may be better off sealing the wood first with a sanding sealer then staining over the sealer. This will prevent soaking in, which masks the sealing effect of the "glue smears", and also causes end-grain to remain light (normally it soaks up a bunch of stain and looks way too dark). Two caveats: 1) if the stray glue is heavy, it will still show because it wil be yellower than the sealer (and it may look like a "run"), and 2) the stain must be "thicker" because there will be no penetration, hence you need a darker, thicker stain coat to get the same color. Bottom line: don't let the glue get on, wash off what does, sand off any residue when dry. You may still want to seal just the end grain for more uniform color. Steve Falco
stadlin@hou2h.UUCP (Art Stadlin) (01/24/85)
> > I have a construction question. After all components of a > piece of work have been cut out and fitted, is it better to > stain each component before final assembly, or stain the whole > thing at once? > > rruxu!dwz > Don Zobre (201)699-3115 I always stain first, then glue. That way I can be a little less careful with the glue. Staining the pieces seperately is also easier than trying to remove excess stain from tight corners in the assembled piece. If I'm going to apply a finish over the stain, I'll do that after assembly. -- \\\ \\\\ Art Stadlin \\\\\\________!{akgua,ihnp4,houxm}!hou2h!stadlin
briand@tekig1.UUCP (Brian Diehm) (01/28/85)
> By the way, the thick, yellow carpenters glue tends to wash off "close > grain" woods like maple very well with warm water if you get to it > quickly. Mahogany and other "deep grain" woods require a lot of water to > flush the glue out. Better not to get it on the wood in the first > place. > > - - - > > Bottom line: don't let the glue get on, wash off what does, sand off any > residue when dry. You may still want to seal just the end grain for > more uniform color. > > Steve Falco I agree - assemble first then stain, but there are some other tips about managing the glue problem. I've never tried Steve's masking tape idea - it seems like it would work, but from my reading and my personal experience, I've found it is inadvisable to ever wash off glue. Using water will thin the glue, which then soaks better into the wood - just where you don't want it around the joint. Instead, let the glue bead up (but try to minimize the excess), and when it "skins over" pretty well (~15 mins) THEN scrape the beads off with a cabinet scraper. Without the pressure of a clamped joint, the glue doesn't penetrate the wood beyond 1/64" (if that), and the scraping of the skinned glue removes ALL TRACE of the excess! Anyway, a golden rule according to many sources, and according to my personal experience, is NEVER WASH OFF GLUE. Period. This isn't to say Steve's methods won't or don't work - woodworking results are a personal matter of work methods. -Brian Diehm Tektronix, Inc. (who, because they do no woodworking, probably doesn't CARE about my disclaiming their representation. . .)
lef@nlm-vax.ARPA (Larry Fitzpatrick) (01/31/85)
In article <tekig1.1828> briand@tekig1.UUCP (Brian Diehm) writes: >> >> Bottom line: don't let the glue get on, wash off what does, sand off any >> residue when dry. You may still want to seal just the end grain for >> more uniform color. >> > >Using water will thin the glue, which then soaks better into the wood - just >where you don't want it around the joint. Instead, let the glue bead up (but >try to minimize the excess), and when it "skins over" pretty well (~15 mins) >THEN scrape the beads off with a cabinet scraper. Without the pressure of a >clamped joint, the glue doesn't penetrate the wood beyond 1/64" (if that), and >the scraping of the skinned glue removes ALL TRACE of the excess! > >Anyway, a golden rule according to many sources, and according to my personal >experience, is NEVER WASH OFF GLUE. Period. > >-Brian Diehm I have to agree with Brian. The rule is DONT WASH off glue adn the procedure he outlined for removing the glue is the accepted method. As far as staining before gluing goes, the ONLY time you might want to do this is if you are trying to match a wood. That is, part of your construction uses a wood different than the main wood in the piece and you want to stain that wood to look like the main wood. For example: Commonly, birch plywood is used with cherry, walnut, etc pieces for structural reasons, and since birch's grain is similar to cherry and walnut, you stain the birch to match the other hardwood. In this case you want to make sure the finish you give it will match the natural wood if the piece. Hence the staining is done before the gluing. -fitz Larry Fitzpatrick lef@nlm-vax