evans@mhuxt.UUCP (crandall) (06/09/85)
We're finally buying a place with enough space to build a shop and I would appreciate comments on table saws, radial saws, and hand tools. I have a STRONG dislike for Sears as they treated us terribly in the past with respect to honoring service contracts as well as fouling up our charge card. Steve Crandall ihnp4!mhuxt!evans
sasaki@harvard.ARPA (06/10/85)
As a follow up, how about a discussion of hand tools, their quality and
ease of use? I'll start things up by talking about hand tools that I've
grown to love...
Japanese saws: If you haven't tried them, then you are really missing
something. Japanese saws cut on the pull stroke. They are thinner and
cut with a narrower kerf than European/American saws. Japanese saws also
have more teeth per inch than others.
I find that they cut faster and with less effort than other saws as
well. The bad news is that pulling up puts sawdust all over the line
that you have marked. Japanese saws are also a bit difficult to sharpen,
but several companies make saws with replaceable blades. These
replaceable blades are cheap enough that I don't mind throwing them
away.
Don't buy a really good Japanese saw until you have gained some
experience using them. The good blades have very brittle teeth that are
easily broken off.
Lots of companies import them. I buy mine from Garret Wade. By the way,
the Garret Wade catalog contains lots of good information about hand
tools and is worth the price ($3, I think) even if you never buy tools
from them.
Japanese chisels: I've found that Japanese chisels take and hold a
sharper edge than any other chisels. Most Japanese chisels that I've
used are brittle at first, and sometimes chip very badly. After a couple
of sharpenings and some hard use this stops.
The major disadvantage (besides the initial brittleness) is that they
really should be sharpened on Japanese water stones, and that sharpening
is a little different than with western chisels.
Japanese planes: (I guess you can tell that I like Japanese tools).
Japanese plane blades, like Japanese chisels, are made of high carbon,
very hard steel, that is laminated to a softer steel backing. The planes
also cut on the pull stroke.
The plane body is made of wood (usually something a little resilient,
like oak) and is subject to woods foibles including warping. The plane
bodies require periodic tuning, which is a pain. The blades often chip
when new (like chisels) and getting used to pulling a plane may take a
while.
I use a plane with a body about 12 inches long for smoothing and as a
block plane.
Record joiner plane: My concession to western tools is a Record joiner,
with corrugated bottom. I like the weight and the adjustments and the
blade that comes with the plane is pretty good (I like my Japanese
blades better). You should check the flatness of the sole. I had to have
mine ground flat.
Since learning how to use Japanese planes, I use the joiner by pulling
it as well.
Enough for now...
--
----------------
Marty Sasaki net: sasaki@harvard.{arpa,uucp}
Havard University Science Center phone: 617-495-1270
One Oxford Street
Cambridge, MA 02138RAK@psuvm.BITNET (06/11/85)
Too bad that you have a bad taste for SEARS as I really like my shop
full of CRAFTSMAN tools. I have even broken some wrenches and they
have replaced them with no hassles. The "bench" type tools that I
have are: radial arm saw, table saw, band saw, and a lathe. I also
have several other tool such as a circular saw, drill, and many hand
tools.
mike@amdcad.UUCP (Mike Parker) (06/13/85)
On the subject of free replacements from Sears on broken Craftsman tools. Recently while browsing at Sears I saw a woman with about 5 screwdrivers, standing in front of the screwdriver shelf slowly comparing her old ones to new ones presumablt to find exact replacements. One had obviously been electricallt shorted, theer was a big notch in the tip, surrounded by a thin rim of brass surrounded by black. Another had obviously been used to pry something as the last 1/4 inch of the tip was bent over about 45 degrees. Another had been hit with a hammer and the handle was all mushroomed. Imagine my suprise when she showed up in front of me in line, explained that she was replacing these "broken" screwdrivers with new, handed the old to the clerk and walked away with a handful of new screwdrivers free! No wonder they're losing money. The free replacement policy apparenlty covers abuse. As to the quality of Sears tools, I have to break this into categories. Hand tools - the best and boy is that free replacement stuff neat! Hand held power tools - Sears drills and skilsaws seem too heavy for their horsepower. My Black and Decker stuff weighs half as much. At the end of the day I'm half as fatigued and half as dangerous. I once rested my poor tired arms by leaning my Dad's Sears skilsaw against my leg while giving instructions to my helper. Unfortunately, my brain was also tired. We were making angle cuts so my left hand was holding the blade guard open, and I had the saw still running ( don't know why ). It took the doctor 2 hours to clean up the mess, luckily everything still works. Of course, when I wear the B and D out they won't give me a new one free. Sears routers don't have a replaceable collet. When it wears out and gets sloppy, you have to replace the armature of the motor. The flimsy plastic handles bug me too. My Bosch is nice but has a saftey problem in that I cannot hold both handles and turn it on at the same time. Stationary power tools - The table saws while not great were the best price/performance ratio available for a long time. I noticed the other day that they have switched to flexible shaft drive, I'm not impressed. Seems like it will wear out as fast as a belt and cost more. And theres nothing to slip so kickback gets more likely. Where else can you get a 10 inch table saw for $350. The other stuff is o.k. I guess although it's a little too home shop. The jointer is way too small, I want 6 inch minimum. The shaper has too small a table and too little horsepower. I guess it depends on what you are looking for. Mike
jimd@iddic.UUCP (Jim Delwiche) (06/13/85)
[] I was pleased to see a reference to Japanese woodworking tools, since I am a great admirer of them, particularly the planes. I have four of them. The toolmakers in Japan who make these laminated blades are supposedly descended from Samurai swordmakers, and use the same basic blacksmithing techniques. These planes can be made amazingly sharp. My smoothing plane can take off gauze like, almost transparent shavings. My favorite source for these tools is Woodline, the Japan Woodworker, in Alameda, CA. They offer classes on use of Japanese tools, some of them conducted by Jay van Arsdale, who apprenticed in Japan for some years. They run a mail order business, but I try to stop by every time I'm in the Bay Area, so I can take my pick of the litter. I was astounded to find Japanese tools in the Sears Tool catalog, although there is no mention in there that they are Japanese, or even that the planes are designed to be pulled, rather than pushed! The description just says (imported) at the bottom.
dkatz@zaphod.UUCP (Dave Katz) (06/15/85)
In article <910@mhuxt.UUCP> evans@mhuxt.UUCP (crandall) writes: >We're finally buying a place with enough space to build a shop and I would >appreciate comments on table saws, radial saws, and hand tools. ... I won't discuss brand names, other than to say that using the following philosophy to buy from B & D has served me well, but I do have two comments. 1. Do not buy home handyman tools. Pay a few dollars more and buy the first step up into professional quality. Most handyman tools are built for light use and will wear out quickly. For example, a 1/2 or 5/8 Hp router will be out of commision in a year or two if you do any amount of work with it. For about $20 more, you can get a 1 Hp professional. Mine has lasted 5 years so far without any need for service. 2. This from a friend since I have never owned a radial arm saw. His complaint was that as the saw is extended to the end of the arm, the arm tilts down or swings sideways. The result is poor accuracy on some cuts and all dadoes. He traded in his for a table saw after several years of fighting the problem. There might be a solution, but my friend never found it.