dave@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU (Dave Bloom) (05/29/86)
<>
I keep reading about the USENET problem and wondering why there is
one. I imagine the worst of the situation is the reposting/rehashing
of text that appears as quotes in other people's postings. For example,
today a student brought to my attention a posting by
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU message id <14003@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> which
consisted of 126 lines of text, 63 of which were delimited by ">".
(The posting appears in net.jokes)
This is not the first time this person has posted mega-line quote postings
to this newsgroup, nor is he the only one. I suggest that the success of this
network depends in part on the ability of System Administrators to keep a
handle on idiots like this, educating or revoking their net privilages if
they continue their ways. Furthermore, if a site refuses to police their own
users, the nearest backbone site should simply cut them off until the problem
is rectified.
If you see this type of behavior in a particular user's postings,
and it continues after sending him personal mail, I think it appropriate
that 'usenet' or 'root' be notified at his site. If that doesn't work,
I imagine mail to the newsfeed site administrator would be appropriate.
"What do you think?.... We'd like to know."
--
harvard\ pyramid\ Dave Bloom
seismo \ pyrnj \
ut-sally >!topaz >!andromeda!dave Office: (201) 648-5083
allegra / caip /
ihnp4!packard/ yogi/ "You're never alone with a schizophrenic...."weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (05/30/86)
In article <324@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU> dave@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU (Dave Bloom) practices a different kind of net.abuse: >today a student brought to my attention a posting by >weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU message id <14003@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> which >consisted of 126 lines of text, 63 of which were delimited by ">". >(The posting appears in net.jokes) Do I smell a VENDETTA? 50% is rather *good* for net.jokes with all the puns and one-line alternate punchlines and wry comments, etc. And 50% is a rather typical quoting level in many newsgroups, from net.politics to net.mail to net.news.group etc. etc. Yet somehow this student managed to find MY posting as the example of idiotic abuse. Do I smell a rat? >This is not the first time this person has posted mega-line quote postings >to this newsgroup, nor is he the only one. Yes, I'm not the only one. But it's a rather amazing coincidence how you or the student involved happened to overlook the 90+% quoted material examples in net.jokes, or my numerous wholly original articles in net.jokes, for that matter, isn't it? No, it's not a coincidence? > I suggest that the success of this >network depends in part on the ability of System Administrators to keep a >handle on idiots like this, educating or revoking their net privilages if >they continue their ways. Our local SA, while not approving of all of my postings, has stated publicly and privately that he sees no reason to revoke my privileges. So please don't waste my local SA's time with generic complaints. He has got much better things to do, I'm sure. Tell me, is it worth my time sending e-mail to your SA about how you use the net for vendettas? > Furthermore, if a site refuses to police their own >users, the nearest backbone site should simply cut them off until the problem >is rectified. If you want to get rid of all of the 50+% quoted material stuff, you will solve the problem of too much traffic. You will also eliminate much of the known network. Any particular reason you used *me* as an example? I can guess ... >If you see this type of behavior in a particular user's postings, >and it continues after sending him personal mail, .... Do you send e-mail to half the known net world? Did you even send ME any e-mail before launching into your public vendetta? >"What do you think?.... We'd like to know." What do I think? I think you ought to e-mail me actual examples of my alleged abuse, and tell me just what about it is abuse, instead of wasting the net with this generic vendetta nonsense. And don't tell me you thought my posting wasn't funny, ergo stop posting. I couldn't care less what your sense of humor is. The real problem with the net is rather obvious: the net is falling apart with too many users and too much traffic, and yet the net is STILL growing rather rapidly. Too much quoting is just a constant doubling factor or so in volume. That's only an amplification, not the genuine problem. Even stupid vendettas like yours are a rather trivial net.problem in comparison. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720
dave@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU (Dave Bloom) (05/30/86)
In article <14049@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, (Matthew P. Wiener) writes: > > Do I smell a VENDETTA? 50% is rather *good* for net.jokes with all > the puns and one-line alternate punchlines and wry comments, etc. > And 50% is a rather typical quoting level in many newsgroups, from > net.politics to net.mail to net.news.group etc. etc. Yet somehow > this student managed to find MY posting as the example of idiotic > abuse. Do I smell a rat? > Obviously Mr Weemba is suffering from paranoia. I have no reason for a personal vendetta with him... I don't know him, have never met him and would probably like to keep it that way. I don't even read net.jokes. But as a system administrator I see the traffic that passes through my machine, and after having perused our news spool I noticed a number of flames/100 line quote articles directed at or posted by Mr Weemba. Weemba is my example, as I stated in my posting, not the whole problem. But his PRACTICES, as well those by those like him are a major CAUSE of the problem. >> This is not the first time this person has posted mega-line quote postings >> to this newsgroup, nor is he the only one. > > Yes, I'm not the only one. But it's a rather amazing coincidence how > you or the student involved happened to overlook the 90+% quoted > material examples in net.jokes, or my numerous wholly original articles > in net.jokes, for that matter, isn't it? No, it's not a coincidence? No... It's not a coincidence. Net.jokes is a heavily posted-to newsgroup, and of those posting to it it seems that Weemba is the worst cause of flame generation/re-hashing. If PEOPLE LIKE HIM would rely on e-mail, we wouldn't be having these discussions about starting "talk" groups. Notice the "people like him" phrase... not just him, but him and "people like him". -- harvard\ pyramid\ Dave Bloom seismo \ pyrnj \ ut-sally >!topaz >!andromeda!dave Office: (201) 648-5083 allegra / caip / ihnp4!packard/ yogi/ "You're never alone with a schizophrenic...."
weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) (05/31/86)
In article <327@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU> dave@andromeda.RUTGERS.EDU (Dave Bloom) writes: >> Do I smell a VENDETTA? 50% is rather *good* for net.jokes ... >> And 50% is a rather typical quoting level in many newsgroups, ... >> ... Do I smell a rat? > >Obviously Mr Weemba is suffering from paranoia. ... I know of several posters who have or had vendettas against me, including perhaps one of the students(?) at your machine. One more vendetta would not surprise me. > ... I don't even read net.jokes. Ah good! We have a basis for an intelligent discussion. :-) >But as a system administrator I see the traffic that passes through my >machine, and after having perused our news spool I noticed a number of >flames/100 line quote articles directed at or posted by Mr Weemba. Can you tell the difference between a flame and humor? I have not flamed in net.jokes for quite a while, nor did I ever do so in any noticeable quantity, nor read very many flames against me. >Weemba is my example, as I stated in my posting, not the whole problem. >But his PRACTICES, as well those by those like him are a major CAUSE of >the problem. What do you think of my comments about sheer volume of net users? >>> This is not the first time this person has posted mega-line quote postings >>> to this newsgroup, nor is he the only one. >>... >> you or the student involved happened to overlook the 90+% quoted >> material examples in net.jokes, ... > >No... It's not a coincidence. Net.jokes is a heavily posted-to newsgroup, >and of those posting to it it seems that Weemba is the worst cause of flame >generation/re-hashing. I think that is because I went for the punsters' jugular some time back, causing maximum outrage, so now they like to poke pun at me back. Forgive me, but I had to make the try. And I have received lots of mail telling me that my efforts were the funniest thing they had ever seen in net.jokes. The latest weemba flamage in general is not bothersome to me personally, and I believe most of it qualifies as (weak) humor, based on context. That is, if you've been following net.jokes all along, much of the antiweemba flames (but not all) are funny, if only weakly, but if you just read them in isolation, as you claim you have, then of course they look stupid. In the end, though, no one expects quality from net.jokes in the first place, so I don't really know why you keep hitting at that group as an example of the REAL problem with USENET. > If PEOPLE LIKE HIM would rely on e-mail, ... Woo! So how do we decide when things are better for e-mail? What is the criteria for something being worthy of public notice and something not? Just what is the purpose of all these newsgroups in the first place? For your information, I do do a lot of my discussions via e-mail. Not that you would notice, of course. Also, I apologize for my last posting in this group, not for the posting itself--I'm incorrigible--but as you are now changing your tune as to what the problem is, my comments are now inapplicable. Before you said it was multiline quoting, and mentioned my awful 50% quote rate. Now it's the flame game itself you don't like. But as I said before, I believe you and I disagree on just what constitutes a flame in the first place. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720 ------------------------------------------------------------------ As a postscript, I will mention two examples that I can't believe you overlooked as something to call the REAL problem, not that I believe that your complaint about net.jokes qualifies as the REAL problem in the first place. These particular ones may have been too recent for your actual article, but looking through net.jokes article by article at any time gives things far far worse than the one you mentioned. First there is article <283@oucs.UUCP>, which quoted my entire article <14003@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, all 126 lines of it, the one with the 50% quote rate, in order to give a four line complaint that *he* didn't find it funny, and then he gave a three line joke to "protect" himself. I don't see how or why I'm potentially responsible for other people's senses of humor or lack thereof. Second, I include the latest running pun, just in case you overlooked this sort of stuff. It was unrotated in the original, so be warned. 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