guest@ssc-vax.UUCP (11/01/83)
On the message posted by "Lance":
Don't any of you let this man mislead you into thinking being homosexual
is not a sin. The Bible specifically condemns those who practice such beliefs.
If you "think you may be gay", as he said, do not believe that there are any
gray areas between homosexuality and sex as God meant it. Homosexuality is
contrary to the laws of God and nature. This man first tries to put down
Christians using the Bible as a source of information, then quotes some other
book, seemingly to make those who are feeling guilty "not feel so bad; it's
ok." The overwhelming majority of Christian literature is against homo-
sexuality. It's too bad he is so vehement in his outspokenness; he will be
the more punished.debenedi@yale-com.UUCP (11/02/83)
The article ssc-vax!guest refers to is allegre.1924. On yale-comix it was 4 articles ago. Re-read it. "Now, You're Never Alone" Another Message In The Bottle from Robert DeBenedictis
debenedi@yale-com.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (11/02/83)
The article ssc-vax!guest refers to is allegra.1924. On yale-comix it was 6 articles ago. Re-read it. "Now, You're Never Alone" Another Message In The Bottle from Robert DeBenedictis
kinn@ihu1e.UUCP (Kevin Kinnear) (11/03/83)
Don't let the turkeys get you down! The best way to deal with Bible thumpers is to ignore them. So what if some Christians think being Gay is a sin? Would you be upset if someone Jewish kept saying you were evil because you didn't keep kosher? You have to have more self-confidence; no matter how hard it is. There are enough Gay men and Lesbians to support one another.
jbray@bbncca.ARPA (James Bray) (11/03/83)
Yes, well why don't you anonymous bigots spout your antichrist Bible-pus off into /dev/null, and then follow it? I have a rather clear idea of what God will do with trash like you, and I guarantee it bears no resemblance to whatever infantile, twisted little two-bit Heaven you expect to be fouling with your pestilential mental effluvient. I keep running into your type all over the net, often with courageous names like "guest" or "anonymous", and you batch of creeps with your antichrist leaders and Bible-twisting are about as far from anything Christian as one can get. --Jim Bray decvax!bbncca!jbray
crane@fortune.UUCP (11/03/83)
I have a true story to tell. My wife had a friend who used to have spells where she would periodically blank out and forget things. She didn't know what was wrong, but she knew something was wrong, so she went to various people for help. She went to a MD-type doctor. He said she needed some medicine. The medicine didn't work. Then she went to a psychologist-type doctor. He said she was crazy and needed therapy. The therapy didn't work. Then she saw the bishop of her church. He said it was nothing and would probably go away. He also said that a little more fasting, praying, and going to church couldn't help. The woman also turned to her family and supposed friends in her church. They all thought she was "nuts" and shuned her. Even her own kids! This next part didn't happen. But supposing she lived at the time of the Salem witch trials. She would probably be burned at the stake for being a witch or possessed by demons. This part did happen. The woman was lucky enough to have my wife for a friend. My wife is a nutritionist who does her homework. My wife recognized the woman's symptoms as petite mal epileptic seizures. She analyzed the woman's eating habits, got her taking some vitamin supplements, and within a month the seizures went away and she has been perfectly normal since then. The point I am making is this. People are usually trained only to look at problems from their own prospective and see the solution as comming from their own disciplines. e.g. MD's see everything as a medical problem. Shrinks see everything as a psychological problem. Religionists see everything as a spiritual problem. A lawyer would probably see it as a legal problem. Thank God she didn't see one of us or we'd try to convince her it was a software problem. My wife was in the same boat as the rest, but in THIS case, my wife just HAPPENED TO BE RIGHT. Moral: No single discipline has all the answers. A lot of things that were once condemned as evil spirits and wickedness are easily handled as medical, psychological, emotional, or nutritional disorders. Or maybe the person is just plain lonely and needs a friend. I am not trying to say that gay-ness is a physical or emotional abnormality. But there is a lot of evidence comming out which suggests that it be a structural condition in the body or genes developed before birth. If this is true, it makes no more sense to speak or sexual orientation as an abnormality as it does to speak of maleness or femaleness or of race as an abnormality. How do you define what is normal? The answer seems to be: abnormal is something that departs from society's accepted standards. When taking about race or sex, most of us can see how crazy that definition is, because of what we know about science. Someday when science gives a definitive answer as to what causes homosexuality, all the superstition and mystery will be cleared up in this area too. Attention those of you who call yourselves "Christians": Nowhere in the Bible does it claim to be the last word on anything. The Bible is one channel for God to communicate to man. It is only ONE channel. By the way, God IS the last word on anything, NOT the Bible. What I want to know is what has God said LATELY about this subject. If you people want to be taken seriously, stop beating people over the head with the Bible. Talk to them one to one, as friends. Don't talk to them through the Bible. The Bible is only a tool, like a computer. Learn how to use it to help yourselves and other people. Can you honestly point to ONE INSTANCE where somebody instantly changed their ways forever as a result of having scripture spouted at them? Can you point to ONE INSTANCE of where quiting chapter and verse of something made somebody change from being gay to straight? If you can, I'm sure the entire network would like to hear about it. If you can't you still have your right to speak out and the rest of us have their rights to inject a little sanity.
schoff@bbncca.ARPA (Martin Schoffstall) (11/04/83)
Jim, please don't think that ALL Christians are bigotted and hate homosexuals and lesbians. What has happened somehow is that most christians think that homosexuality is a sin that is larger than they commit, how wrong they are!!!! If I may quote: "For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all." NKJV (James 2:10) The difference between the Christian's lieing or boastfulness or gossiping or (perish the thought) lust and the homosexual's sexual act is nothing. Is the non-homosexual born-again Christian's sin better than the homosexual's sin, (hold your breath Christians), NO. If you think you are better then "the gays", I think you had better repent. If you can't eat with them, invite them to your home, hire them for your employees, and loan them your lawn mower than you had better repent again. Just so there is no question, I believe with them it is (YEP) sin. But daily I have to confess to the LORD sin that is equivalent to ANYTHING that the average homosexual/lesbian does. I think that most of what has been going on in this group from "christians" hasn't even come close to being "loving" or "CHRIST like". Before you flame, (probably both sides), I am not one of thos 'Some of my best friends are ______ '. Neither am I some liberal/Neo-evangelical Christian. I am a hard core fundamentalist (or as Steve Dyer would say a "bible-thumper") who doesn't particuraly like Jerry Falwell. !decvax!bbncca!schoff schoff@bbnu
schoff@bbncca.ARPA (Martin Schoffstall) (11/04/83)
Q: What has God said lately? A: In the form of cannonical scripture, nothing. "For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book." NKJV REV 22:18 What I think you are saying is that GOD has probably changed his mind since the New Testament was written. (Moral not dispensational for you theologians.) GOD has changed on his views: "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." NKJV Hebrews 13:8. God is not going to change just because 50% of us vote that something he said is wrong is now right, or vice versa. What GOD has said lately is an individual matter via the Holy Spirit, like "Hey Marty why don't you apply 'love thy neighbor as thyself' to that person who is down and out over there, why don't you give him your coat, he is cold ....etc.....". You are right we do need to be friends! But the Bible has meaningful things to say in a number of areas, and general principles by which to live. Hopefully if we were friends you wouldn't want me to lie to you! (A principle and a command from the Bible) The Bible is not magic, we sprinkle a couple of grams over you and POOF! all the evil (lieing,cheating,gossipping,fornication ...etc...) is gone. But between the love of Christ, the love of the Christian, the Bible and the Holy Spirit there can be change. Noteable examples include: Rahab the harlot living in Jericho, Mary Magdalene another harlot living outside of Jerusalem, Paul (formally Saul of Tarsus) on the road to Damascus, and me. Note, in none of these cases did they become perfect! The reason that we read the Bible is for a reference point. How do you know what a linear meter is unless you have a reference. Even Jean Paul Sarte said that it was impossible to have morality without an infinite reference point. The majority or minority feelings do not make a reference point. Who cares what the majority thinks if they are wrong. If we pass a law that says 'pi' = 3.00 do you think the universe is going to take note and change? (Note this is why I don't like the Moral Majority).
joelg@fluke.UUCP (Joel Gilman) (11/04/83)
Bible-pus! Right On!