notes@ucbcad.UUCP (10/12/83)
#N:ucbesvax:32500001:000:414 ucbesvax!turner Oct 11 18:40:00 1983 I'd like to open a line of discussion. Just what proportion of of people out there (in netland) are gay or lesbian? As a somewhat male-dominated (still!) profession, programming might be expected to have at least the percentages found for the male population at large (Kinsey says ~10%, I think.) I have some reason to expect that is is higher, however. Any clues? --- Michael Turner (ucbvax!ucbesvax.turner)
msimpson@bbncca.ARPA (Mike Simpson) (10/13/83)
Perhaps I am biased by my environment (living and working in the Greater Boston area), but it seems like more than 10% of the male population here is gay. I can only speculate on the lesbian proportion. (This is partly based on an estimation of Harvard's gay population as ~15%.) Those proportions seem to apply to programmers as well. Comments are welcomed. -- cheers, Mike Simpson Bolt Beranek and Newman Inc. Ten Moulton Street, Cambridge, MA 02238 (USnail) msimpson@bbn-unix (ARPA) decvax!bbncca!msimpson (UUCP) msimpson.bbn-unix@udel-relay (CSNET) 617-497-2819 (Ma Bell)
sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer) (10/14/83)
Far more interesting to me, is the "some reason" why you expect the programming profession to have a higher percentage of gays than in the general population. Fascinating. Here's a tidbit. I know many gay people who are programmers, but I've worked with very few whom I've known to be gay. Perhaps that just reflects the general conservatism of the engineering professions, which squeezes people into plastic-pocket-protector molds without any remarkable characteristics. Or perhaps the "engineering personality", if there be such a thing, isn't too comfortable with being conspicuous. Or maybe I'm completely off base. /Steve Dyer decvax!genrad!wjh12!bbncca!sdyer
wdoherty@bbncca.ARPA (Will Doherty) (01/06/84)
This is my first submission (har) to motts. I've been trying to find it for quite some time. I want to state that I am gay so that someone at least will show that they are proud (at least unashamed of their sexuality) and not afraid of reprisal. I consider this fear to be paranoid, although probably appropriate for some people. I find that I could not possibly work with people who are homophobic, nor consider them to be close friends. Frankly, such people are ignorant, just as are racist and sexist folks. In this particular use, I mean people who are intentionally racist, sexist, or homophobic, not those who are unintentionally so. But even for those people, I do not believe that the oppressed have an obligation to educate the oppressor. A vested interest to do so perhaps. I wish to comment on the use of the term "sexual preference." I much prefer (har) "sexual orientation" because it does not explicitly require one's sexuality to be a choice. As I will flame about later, I am not sure how much of a person's sexuality is chosen and how much is predetermined (excuse the passive (har) voice). I am disturbed by the concurrent comments that lesbians are not participating in motss with the sexist references displayed by so many of the commentators. If you want lesbians to participate, create an atmosphere, along with them, in which they (and you) will feel comfortable. Sometime I will flame about the kin selection theory of homosexuality. I'm writing a paper on it now for my Scientific Essay class at MIT. Also, by the way, I'm a member of NAMBLA and I'm really angry at the person who described me as a bane to the homosexual movement. I think you're both arrogant and wrong. But then, let's not get emotional about this. I will gladly debate the position on completely rational turf. I also believe that lesbians have a right to "separate space" in a patriarchal world, i.e. a world dominated by men. Thus, I would support lesbians who chose to have a separate net.lesbians if they felt that some of the comments on motss reject basic principles of justice and display arrogant sexism. Likewise, I support the concept of a women only discussion group. I just helped to write a resolution on Youth Liberation which the most recent conference of the North American Man/Boy (should include all genders in my opinion) Love Association passed unanimously at their last conference here in Boston. I am writing a "Speaking Out" about it for Gay Community News (GCN). I am working at MIT to keep the ROTC programs, armed force and intelligence agency recruiters from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation, with the justification that MIT policy prohibits such discrimination-- it took us more than a decade to acheive that policy statement. I am the General Coordinator of Gays at MIT and I am one of the originators of what I shall call the Nationwide Lesbian and Gay Academic Network (NLGAN). I am a public draft resister and war tax resister. But enough about myself--I hope this will stimulate some discussion. I'm getting tired, though I'd like to flame on about Lesbian S/M, the great gay plays that have been coming out (har), a variety of equally fascinating topics (yawn). Flame away! Will Doherty USE: wdoherty!decvax!bbncca ARPA: wdoherty@bbng TINKLEBELL: 617-262-3485
crane@fortune.UUCP (01/10/84)
#R:bbncca:-44500:fortune:33700002:000:3415 fortune!crane Jan 9 13:08:00 1984 ***** fortune:net.motss / bbncca!wdoherty / 1:40 am Jan 6, 1984 This is my first submission (har) to motts. I've been trying to find it for quite some time. I want to state that I am gay so that someone at least will show that they are proud (at least unashamed of their sexuality) and not afraid of reprisal. I consider this fear to be paranoid, although probably appropriate for some people. I find that I could not possibly work with people who are homophobic, nor consider them to be close friends. Frankly, such people are ignorant, just as are racist and sexist folks. In this particular use, I mean people who are intentionally racist, sexist, or homophobic, not those who are unintentionally so. But even for those people, I do not believe that the oppressed have an obligation to educate the oppressor. A vested interest to do so perhaps. I wish to comment on the use of the term "sexual preference." I much prefer (har) "sexual orientation" because it does not explicitly require one's sexuality to be a choice. As I will flame about later, I am not sure how much of a person's sexuality is chosen and how much is predetermined (excuse the passive (har) voice). I am disturbed by the concurrent comments that lesbians are not participating in motss with the sexist references displayed by so many of the commentators. If you want lesbians to participate, create an atmosphere, along with them, in which they (and you) will feel comfortable. Sometime I will flame about the kin selection theory of homosexuality. I'm writing a paper on it now for my Scientific Essay class at MIT. Also, by the way, I'm a member of NAMBLA and I'm really angry at the person who described me as a bane to the homosexual movement. I think you're both arrogant and wrong. But then, let's not get emotional about this. I will gladly debate the position on completely rational turf. I also believe that lesbians have a right to "separate space" in a patriarchal world, i.e. a world dominated by men. Thus, I would support lesbians who chose to have a separate net.lesbians if they felt that some of the comments on motss reject basic principles of justice and display arrogant sexism. Likewise, I support the concept of a women only discussion group. I just helped to write a resolution on Youth Liberation which the most recent conference of the North American Man/Boy (should include all genders in my opinion) Love Association passed unanimously at their last conference here in Boston. I am writing a "Speaking Out" about it for Gay Community News (GCN). I am working at MIT to keep the ROTC programs, armed force and intelligence agency recruiters from discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation, with the justification that MIT policy prohibits such discrimination-- it took us more than a decade to acheive that policy statement. I am the General Coordinator of Gays at MIT and I am one of the originators of what I shall call the Nationwide Lesbian and Gay Academic Network (NLGAN). I am a public draft resister and war tax resister. But enough about myself--I hope this will stimulate some discussion. I'm getting tired, though I'd like to flame on about Lesbian S/M, the great gay plays that have been coming out (har), a variety of equally fascinating topics (yawn). Flame away! Will Doherty USE: wdoherty!decvax!bbncca ARPA: wdoherty@bbng TINKLEBELL: 617-262-3485 ----------