millines@fortune.UUCP (06/21/84)
#N:fortune:33700007:000:345
fortune!millines Jun 20 15:27:00 1984
The dear abbey suggestion sounds o.k. I think it would be great
for those who live in areas that don't have a gay counseling service. And for
those who feel more comfortable writing than talking.
We just have to remember to take the advice with caution and think it
over very carefully before we put it to use.
Trish Millinesdyer@wivax.UUCP (Stephen Dyer) (06/21/84)
Right! Advise is a great idea, and it sounds like it's both fun and useful. But it might be worth remembering the same comments about messages posted to 'net.bugs.4bsd' made at the recent USENIX convention: take them with a grain of salt! Naturally, I am sure that the quality of our comments will be ever so much higher! :-) -- /Steve Dyer decvax!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbncca.ARPA
crane@fortune.UUCP (John Crane) (06/29/84)
Here is my long-awaited Dear Abbey letter. It's quite personal and that's why I asked before submitting it. I am leaving out a LOT of details. Also, I am being just a little campy (you know, your typical love lorn letter) without distorting any of the facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Abbey: Am I wrong for throwing out my lover of two years? Here's the situation. I have been living with this guy (lets call him "Bob" because that's his real name) for two years. We are absolutely crazy about each other sexually and also love running and working out together, camping together, traveling, and going to movies. The problem, Abbey, is we can't get along at home. He has been unemployed for the past three years and can't find a job. He is 38 and doesn't have too many salable skills. He is also very shy in business situations. He'll go through periods of about a month where he'll look very hard for a job. Then he'll give up. Honestly, Abbey, even when he's "trying" he doesn't try that hard. He wakes up at noon every day and starts looking about 2 in the afternoon. He stays up till 2 AM every morning. He even sleeps late on the weekends so we can never go anywhere except to the bars late at night. I don't drink that much, but he has a problem. When he gets really drunk, he sometimes hits me. Yet he says I have a terrible temper because I knock his cat off the table when I am trying to eat. I have been supporting him financially for two years and it has almost driven me bankrupt. Over half my salary goes to rent and alimony. What's left goes to pay off the $14,000 debt my ex-wife and I accumulated over 13 years of marriage. I have to watch every penny. He resents this. I have tried to help him in other ways too. I got him a job at one place where I worked. I have two computers in the house and have tried teaching him how to use them. He has tried a little but usually says he is too tired and upset to learn anything. When I am working at home on the computers, he gets upset that I am not paying any attention to him. He disrupts the environment so much that I can't be creative. Another problem with Bob. He seldom keeps promises to himself or me. He was supposed to meet me at a bar about two weeks ago. We were going to have two drinks and leave. I said I didn't even want to go, but I went anyway. I waited two hours for him and he never showed up. I went home about 11:30. He called me at 3:30 AM and wanted me to come down and drive him home. I asked him why he didn't show up and he said he went to anyther bar and "forgot about the time". I got mildly upset, and he got really angry and started screaming at me over the phone. I drove downtown and picked him up. That bar episode was the last straw. I threatened to throw him out on the spot but backed down as he has no money and no place to go. Abbey, we may be "lovers", but how much financial responsibility do I have to shoulder for him? I said he could stay another month until he found a job. Again, we had a big fight and he demanded two months. I have finally decided to move in with a close friend and let him stay in the apartment for two months. After that, he's on his own, let the landlord throw him out. Abbey, I come from a conservative Mormon background. I believe very strongly in lovalty and commitment to people once you have an agreement to support each other. He is very wild and resents my conservatism. I will say some good things in his behalf. He is very kind to animals and people who are really in trouble. he is very intelligent and well educated. He is a fantastic cook and does all the domestic work: cooking, cleaning, running errands, shopping, etc. He is also gorgeous. He is 38 and looks 22. But, I'm not desperate. I'm not so bad looking myself and never had ANY trouble finding people who find both my body AND me attractive. He is very loving and sweet most of the time. We are TOTALLY as ease with each other. He says that's the reason he acts crazy around me, because he knows he can get away with it. He does all this stuff but says he still loves me so that makes it OK. Abbey, we don't even have the same definition for love. To him, it is sexual attraction and always comming home to the person. (Never mind how late you stay out or what you do or with whom or what disease you bring home with you, as long as you come home.) My idea of love also includes sexual attraction, but it also implies commitment and honesty and being tough when its for the other person's good. Abbey, how much do I have to put up with in the name of love? I know you will probably say why didn't you break up long ago. The reason I didn't was because I felt sorry for him. I kept wanting to give him another chance. I thought if he got employed, things would be better. Also, I thought if I just loved him enough that would solve evenything, I didn't. This leopard has not changed his spots in two years and I don't think he ever will. I thought it was just me. I have only been out for three years and thought maybe gay men were just irresponsible until I met a few more people who started out in a lot worse shape than him and who have pulled themselves out of the mire by their bootstraps and made something out of them selves. Am I being too "grasping" simply because I expect some honesty and commitment out of him in the relationship. Is my Mormon background comming out too much when I ask him to contribute financially to the relationship? I told him I don't care if he only makes minimum wage as long as he helps pay even a small part of the rent. Abbey, I think its time to call it quits. Don't you? I think I am doing the right thing, but Bob keeps saying I am making a big mistake and will be sorry and lonely because nobody can love me like he does. Right now, I need some support. I need some encouragement so I won't back down and give in to him next time he begs me to take him back. Just tell me I am doing the right thing. Or am I? Sign me, Fed Up in Frisco ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I would appreciate any CONSTRUCTIVE suggestions and/or encouragment or similar experiences and the way you handled them. What I really would like to know is that am I morally and ethically obligated to continue supporting this guy just because we are "lovers". Is is like we are "married" as he keep reminding me? What rights do I have and what right does he have? If your first impulse is to flame me and call me crazy, stupid, or a sucker, just stow it. I've been telling myself that for the past two years. Thanks, John Crane
crane@fortune.UUCP (John Crane) (07/03/84)
I would like to THANK all the nice people who took the time to answer my request for help last week. I appreciate the advice and encouragement very very much. Over this weekend, Bob and I were able to work out a solution to our problems wherein we can BOTH preserve our dignity and friendship for each other. Thanks, again, for the help. John Crane
sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer) (07/03/84)
I think you have been more than patient with your friend, and you are
absolutely right to extricate yourself from the situation. It's
unfortunate that you have to do this by moving out (instead of showing the
guy the door) but that's probably the least troublesome way to do it.
He sounds like a very weak, undisciplined person who is taking every
advantage of his situation with you. You owe him NOTHING more than you
have already provided: generous notice, with a history of attempts to
resolve your problems without success. This bit about "marriage" and
"duty" is specious. Responsibility is a two-way street, and it sounds from
your story that he has not been fulfilling his end. Certainly, you have no
duty to provide his financial support after you break up. I wouldn't worry
about your "Mormon" attitudes cropping up. Whatever their source, they are
proper, mature concerns and you are following the right reasoning. It also
sounds like you have made a decision, and are just looking for any
convincing counter-reasons against it. I can't offer any. This doesn't
make a break-up any easier; it sounds very painful.
Now, I can imagine that under other circumstances or with another person,
this guy would be a perfect match. If fidelity and honesty aren't
considered high and if his domestic skills are well-appreciated, and if one
is capable and willing to support him financially, and one is willing to
ignore or overlook his obvious failings, then there might be no conflict.
But these are all big "ifs". What is important here is that these are all
sources of great conflict for you, and your experience shows that the
situation is unlikely to change unless you remove yourself from it.
So, Abby says: "Wake up and smell the coffee! The handwriting is on the
wall! Ask yourself if you would be better off with him or without him!
Give him the bum's rush, 23-skiddo, Kiddo!"
Good luck,
--
/Steve Dyer
{decvax,linus,ima}!bbncca!sdyer
sdyer@bbncca.ARPA