newton2@ucbtopaz.UUCP (07/24/84)
As I understand it, the dispute was one over competing property rights- who had the (exclusive?) right to economically exploit the assets represented by the Vanessa Williams package. I liked "Ian Shoals" (Duck's Breath Mystery Theatre persona) rap on Nightline the other eve-- he spews to fast for me to write to long-term memory, but he had said much that was pithy and pertinent about "a country where Larry Flynt runs for president and a Playboy can have a 'philosophy'..."
heahd@tellab1.UUCP (Dan Wood) (07/24/84)
I basically agree with Trish. I mean this is 1984 and Ms. Willams only had a couple of months to go as M.A. I think if the pageant officials had taken a so what attitude that the media hoopla would have been much less and the whole thing would have passed more or less unnoticed. (I could be wrong. I have been once before |~>.) You can't say that this attention won't help her career as an "entertainer" though. After all, until last friday I couldn't have told you Miss America's name but it is unlikely that I will forget Vanessa Williams now (especially since I've got her pictures tacked up in my office :-] ). I think the same can be said for a lot of people (the part about her name, not the pictures although that may well be true also). Not only that, but she has now joined the ranks of such famous resignees as R.M. Nixon who resigned from the position of Mr. right-wing america when pictures of him in a compromising position with Checkers were published in Pet World in 1973 :-). I doubt that the fact that the pictures showed her with another woman was the real reason for the pageant official's reaction although that fact certainly added to their consternation. Oh no Vanessa, I wouldn't dream of publishing these. DW @ ...!ihnp4!tellab1!heahd
riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle) (07/24/84)
Personally, I don't feel very sympathetic. If you want to know my
honest reaction to the whole incident, it is the following: the only
thing dumber than posing for Penthouse magazine is taking part in the
Miss America pageant.
Beauty queens have been dethroned for breaking their employers' prudish
standards for as long as there have been beauty queens. The fact that
her spread in Penthouse involves some staged lesbianism adds to the
titillation of the "scandal," but I suspect it would be a scandal in
any case.
Of course, the very similar nature of beauty pageants and the soft porn
industry adds to the irony of the situation. Both draw on the same
pool of naive young women (girls, actually) with dreams of stardom;
both pander to some ridiculously artificial ideas of what women ought
to be about.
As far as I am concerned, this is a contractual dispute between Miss
Whatshername and her two employers. Maybe she's been shafted, but I
suspect we'll never know; I certainly don't see any point in making a
martyr out of her.
--- Prentiss Riddle ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.")
--- {ihnp4,harvard,seismo,gatech,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddlehawk@oliven.UUCP (07/25/84)
>I don't think the nude stuff bothered them a much as the fact that the scenes >involved another woman. 1: so what? 2: It being with another women does make it a more flagrant departure from the ideas they are trying to push/claim they hold. 3: I think they would have done it even if she had been by herself in the scenes. >She was a better role model than any of the past Miss America's, but of course >they won't even count that. Huh? The fact that she posed for the photos shows this to be false. I'd really like to see some support for your statement. While I'm at it, I'll throw my two cents worth in on the Hot dog incident as sexual harassment. Anybody who sincerely feels that it was her being a women that provoked the complaint has failed Greed 17b. It was the competition, and the traffic distraction bit was simply the best excuse he could come up with. If it was really an issue of she was too pretty, he would have kept his mouth shut and stared out the window at her. hawk -- (Rick Hawkins @ Olivetti ATC) {hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix}!oliveb!oliven!hawk
judy@ut-ngp.UUCP (Judith O. Ashworth) (07/26/84)
After seeing these pictures for myself, I'm afraid I cannot sympathize with the former Miss America. They are not at all tastefully done and I really question her judgement in having posed for them in the first place. Also, I believe she is lying about not having signed a release for them. If she indeed had not, there is no way PENTHOUSE would have published them. Actually, I wouldn't be a bit suprised if this whole thing was actually thought up by her. After all, she now has even more public exposure (pun intended) than if she just faded away after relinquishing her crown in September. Maybe she WANTS her career to have a bit of spice in it. Controversy and scandal have always been great free advertising if you can take the heat. Considering the nature of those pictures I'd say they had no choice but to ask her to give up her title. I don't believe that this is the sort of image we want our Miss America to project. I only wish PENTHOUSE had enough class to wait until she was no longer the current Miss America ... Judy (ut-ngp!judy)
davidk@dartvax.UUCP (David C. Kovar) (07/26/84)
Someone commented that Miss (Ms?) Williams should be be happier
with the outcome of this incident because it will put more $$$
in her hands. This is one *good* case where money != happiness!
Will money make up for embarassment, loss of title, loss of face,
ridicule, etc etc? I would say no, but I am not her. If you think
money will cure everything, I will give you $100,000 in gold,
strap it to your legs and arms and toss you in the ocean.
--
David C. Kovar
USNET: {linus|decvax|cornell|astrovax}!dartvax!davidk
ARPA: davidk%dartmouth@csnet-relay
CSNET: davidk@dartmouth
"The difficult we did yesterday, the impossible we are doing now."miller@nlm-mcs.ARPA (Nancy Miller) (07/26/84)
I think asking Miss America to resign is expected of the Pageant, because the whole idea of the Pageant has always been based upon very old-fashioned attitudes. It just seems that they are not willing to begin living in the 1980's. Years ago, such controversy would not result, and her career as an entertainer would be ruined. Nancy Miller (nlm-mcs.ARPA)
lowry@fortune.UUCP (John Lowry) (07/28/84)
By my calculations, $100,000 in gold is about 27 pounds. You sure you want to bet that I can't swim with 27 pounds strapped to my legs?
abh@ccivax.UUCP (Andrew X. Hudson) (07/30/84)
Sure its a drag, but what I am wondering is whether our friends at Penthouse Enterprises have a few pictures of Mrs. Ferraro and are waiting for the right opportunity..... Andrew Hudson "Tears on my pilow and Ave Maria" -- Fuck you, Brook Shields, Oh Fuck You!! - Big Apple Rotten to the Core Compilation ...[rlgvax | decvax | ucbvax!allegra]!rochester!ritcv!ccivax!abh
msimpson@bbncca.ARPA (Mike Simpson) (07/30/84)
***
30 July 1984.
This may be construed as stretching the point a bit, but
here goes nothing.
Last week (I think it was Tuesday, 7/23) Cable News
Network's CROSSFIRE program had on a female vice-president of
Penthouse and a spokeswoman from NOW, debating the whole Vanessa
Williams affair. I was horrified by two things:
1) The speed with which the confrontation (if you watched
it, you'd agree with me that it was hardly a 'discussion')
shifted from 'was it right for Miss Williams to give up her
crown' to an argument over the magazine's First Amendment rights
to publish the pictures. COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT!
2) The intense 'power trips' that both women were on.
To the NOW speaker, all pornography was an expression of this
society's violence against women, and the obvious solution was to
pass laws against it.
Wasn't this once the land of the free?
Whatever happened to the pressures of the marketplace --
i.e., don't legislate against sales of porn, rather educate
people not to buy pornography that in your opinion degrades
women? (Side note -- I have heard few, if any, women talk about
gay pornography. Why?)
The Penthouse representative stoutly maintained that
Penthouse did not discriminate against women, that many of the
positions of power in Penthouse were filled by women, and that
the magazine was willing to defend Miss Williams against the
pageant's decision and to offer her a job promoting the magazine.
Of course, right after that came Guccione's remark about Williams
being a 'shameful, deceitful little girl' who was now paying the
price for 'trying to put one over on the pageant' and who 'denied
another, possibly more worthy girl' of winning the title -- a
remark that speaks volumes. (But I digress.)
Each speaker ran roughshod over the other, and over
'moderators' Tom Braden and Pat Buchanan. Each one was more
certain of the 'wrongness' of her adversary's position that of
the 'rightness' of her own. Fortunately, perhaps, the speakers
were not physically on the same set -- a very undignified battle
wouldn't have been out of the question.
Did anyone else see that CROSSFIRE show, and care to
comment on it? Mail responses, or post them.
-- Mike Simpson, msimpson@bbncca.{arpa,uucp}
--
-- your obedient servant,
Mike Simpson, BBN
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