[net.motss] Are homosexuals only perverts doing headstands

arndt@lymph.DEC (07/31/84)

OK true believers, buckle up and let's look at the party line that the 
new 'liberated' GAY homosexuals want us to swallow.

Terminological road map:

In words                  Out words

Gay                      Homosexual
invert                   pervert
orientation              preference

Recent Gay ideology claims that being Gay is somewhat like being black
or left handed.  Black pride, ergo Gay pride also.  Gay is just something
you ARE!!!  That is the nub of the whole thing!  If it is then they are
right and it is small and mean spirited (not to mentioned bigoted) to 
require of them to be other than what they are.  

Who would blame you for something you can't help?  

But that is the very question I wish to raise!  That is, to what extent are
people responsible for who and what they are?

Perhaps the 'Reverend' Derrick Bailey, in his classic 1955 study HOMOSEXUALITY
AND THE WESTERN CHRISTIAN TRADITION (a precursor to Boswell) has said it best:

"It is important to understand that the genuine (read Gay here) homosexual
condition, or INVERSION, as it is often termed, is something for which the
subject can in no way be held responsible; in itself it is morally neutral.
It must be made quite clear that the genuine invert is not necessarily given
to homosexual practices, and may exercise as careful a control over his or
her physical impulses as the heterosexual; on the other hand, those who
commit homosexual acts are by no means always genuine inverts.  The PERVERT
as the term implies, is not a true homosexual, but a heterosexual who engages
in homosexual practices.

Strickly speaking, the Bible and Christain tradition know nothing of 
homosexuality (Gayness); both are concerned solely with the commission
of homosexual ACTS . . . ."  Introduction, x,xi

Get it?  Invert - Pervert!

Now to keep this short I just give this one example but I suggest you refer
to Rueda's book, THE HOMOSEXUAL NETWORK: PRIVATE LIVES AND PUBLIC POLICY,'82
especially chapter three, Ideology of the Homosexual Movement, p.75ff.

They're just another minority doin' what comes naturally.  That's why they
hate it when the bisexuals show up at their parades!

But is there really such a thing as a "genuine invert"?  Or is this just an
ideological concept used to push the homosexual program?  (See Rueda chapter
five, Goals of the Homosexual Movement, p.197ff.)  I think that it is far
from certain that "genuine inverts" exist.  For example:

See HOMOSEXUALITY IN PERSPECTIVE, Masters and Johnson, '79, chapter nine,
Incidence and Comparison of Fantasy Patterns, p.174ff.

After giving several careful caveats about drawing too much out of the data
the authors nevertheless outline the fantasy patterns of heterosexual and
homosexual partners during lovemaking.  Guess what?  "Of particular interest
was the high incidence of cross-preference fantasies in the homosexual study
population.  This was the third most frequently described fantasy among
homosexual men."p.179.

Not to leave the girls alone, "Cross-preference fantasies involving male
partners and generally resulting in intercourse were reported third in
frequency by the homnosexual women." p.180.

At the very least this would seem to weaken the "not by choice", "I'm 
an invert mom", and "It's my orientation" line of thinking.

How about it Dyer, ever have dirty thoughts about women while you're
bumpin' buddy's head?  Any others care to step forward?

Sounds a lot to me like Masters and Johnson didn't really have any "genuine
inverts" or modern Gays in the lab after all, but only some sly perverts in
inverts clothing (or out of it, whatever).

They wind up their book with a bang (sorry) to the effect that we all "get off"
(as Sophie would say) the same way physically _ homo and hetero.  Surprise,
surprise!  I can't wait for their study on bowel movements.

"We are genetically determined to be male or female and, in addition, are
given the ability to function sexually as men or women by the physical
capacities of erection and lubrication and the inherent facility for
orgasmic attainment.  These capacities function in identical ways, whether
we are interacting heterosexually or homosexually." p.404-405.

I might add we all know no partner in necessary, (mess cooking in the Navy
we used to call them steam table hard ons), or a partner other than a
fellow human, but I digress.

See page 405ff, Hormones and Homosexuality, for a discussion of the attempt
to identify biologic factors important in the genesis of homosexuality.

Did mommy make you what you are because she had dirty thoughts while you 
were kicking around in her womb and raised her hormone level and yours too?
M and J (what are their hobbies?) quote Kolodny, et al, "There is no suggestion
that endocrine abnormalities will be found in the great majority of homosexuals
. . . In fact there must be speculation that the depressed testosterone levels
could be the secondary result of a . . . depressive reaction relayed through
the hypothalamus from higher cortical centers." p.410.

"Following this study, (quoted above) a large number of additional reports
have appeared with considerable disagreement in results."p410.

"Finally, in view of the current (1979) lack of secure information in this
field, we must maintain an intellectually open stance acknowledging that in
at least in some instances - though clearly not in most cases - hormonal
predispositions may (or may not) interact with social and environmental
factors to lead toward a homosexual orientation."p.411

For a more recent statement see the July 14,'84 Science News, p23.  They're
screwing around with the rats again.  Two guys from California (where else)
have transplanted rats brains (parts thereof) and seen sexual behavior 
change.  But as the article asks, is it cause or effect?  In any case the
same region in the rat brain, the sexually dimorphic nuclei of the medial
preoptic area (naughty bits controller), has yet to be found in humans.
They don't know why the rats changed yet, maybe they were just pissed off.


So where do we stand gang?  Is there any responsibity for sexual behavior?
Heterosexual?  Homosexual?  

Is "Gayspeak" right and there is a difference between inverts and perverts?

Then how many "genuine inverts" can there be out there?

Do you realize how DULL this net was before I put in my 2 cents?

I'm reading up on Bailey and Boswell in preparation for a posting,
"Boswell pulls a boner."

Keep chargin'

Ken Arndt