graham@convex.UUCP (08/07/84)
#N:convex:50600001:000:368
convex!graham Aug 7 13:25:00 1984
The word "gay" has been appropiated by the homosexual community. Prior to
that, it was often used with its old meaning: having or showing a joyous
mood. I object to the corruption of this word by the homosexual movement.
Why is "gay" (in the old sense of the word) about homosexuality?
Marv Graham; Convex Computer Corp. {allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!grahamhartwell@CSL-Vax.ARPA (Steve Hartwell) (08/13/84)
The first time someone asked me that question, I was irked with him;
I said that the first meaning of 'gay' is still "mirthful excitement",
and if he didn't want to use the word because of his dislike for its
alternate meaning, that was HIS problem. I still feel that way, but the
comment has come up so often now that I realize that it is pointless to
exchange resentment for resentment over it.
I believe he term was originally coined in the 19th century by the press to
refer to female prostitutes, and was first incorporated into its current
alternate meaning sometime in the early 60s, but I can't for the life of me
recall why, and would be interested if one of our gentle readers would
follow this up if they can tell me.
So what sort of response do you want? Do you want us to "give it back"?
Apologize? Come up with some clever reason why 'gay' is the best word
to describe ourselves? That's not the way language works.
Ever wonder how the term 'straight' was coined? I don't know; perhaps
it comes from the cliche of one who "follows the straight and narrow path",
which may have been at one time a virtue. It doesn't seem that way to
me now -- it sounds like it would describe a narrow-minded person.
Maybe that's how it was intended to mean; if so, that's too bad, as I
certainly have no interest in soapboxing that claim.
The question does raise a more discussable topic, perhaps one brought up
before: many of us make a genuine semantic distinction between the
words 'homosexual' and 'gay', though often how we define the difference
varies greatly. I would be interested in seeing some discussion on this.
I think I'll mull this over a bit and post something on it in a few days.
--
Steve Hartwell, Computer Science Lab, Stanford University
{ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!csl-vax!hartwell, hartwell@SU-Shasta.ARPAbrower@fortune.UUCP (Richard Brower) (08/14/84)
> The word "gay" has been appropiated by the homosexual community. Prior > to that, it was often used with its old meaning: having or showing a > joyous mood. I object to the corruption of this word by the homosexual > movement. Why is "gay" (in the old sense of the word) about homosexuality? > > Marv Graham Well, actually, we were tired of all the 'straight' people using 'queer' (we are not so strange), faggot (derived from the bundling of 'gay' men into the bonfires used to burn witches to make a "foul enough flame"), sissy (although some of us have mannerisms that fit stereotypical 'feminine' roles, many of us do not), and other terms that do not describe us. Since the only term left is 'homosexual', which many people feel sounds too clinical (back to queer?), we took a word which many felt to describe us better... boy, do I know how to party and be 'gay'. Of interest may be the fact that nobody knows how long this term (i.e. gay) has been used. It was completely accepted and encouraged by the gays I met upon first coming out (~1970). At that time, however, we were the silent minority (although getting vocal quickly) and it was, therefore, less known in the world at large. One reason it was used then was so that gay people could talk to each other in straight environments, with 'gay' as a code word. Since it did not mean homo- sexual to straight people, we could use it without getting our heads beaten in. Unfortunately, it does not provide that level of protection anymore. Richard Brower Fortune Systems {ihnp4,ucbvax!amd,hpda,sri-unix,harpo}!fortune!brower
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (08/14/84)
"Unrespectable" meanings of "gay" date back to at least the 18th century, when the term meant "sexually loose" or "promiscuous", as in "a gay lass". I find resentment about semantic change hypocritical and absurd. English is rife with "treacherous" changes of meanings. Anyone who's read any literature prior to 1800 should be aware of that. For example, that word beloved by Victorians, "fond", originally meant "insane". Discussion of "homosexual" vs. "gay" could make for an interesting discus- sion, even more on social than semantic grounds. John Boswell dis- cusses both terms in the introduction of his book, and surprisingly opts as a scholar for "gay". "Bill the Cat was cloned from his tongue." Ron Rizzo
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (08/14/84)
In my last followup, please substitute "silly" for the harsher phrase "hypocritical and absurd". All sweetness & light, Ron Rizzo
trb@masscomp.UUCP (08/14/84)
>One reason it [gay] was used then was so that gay people could talk to >each other in straight environments, with 'gay' as a code word. Since >it did not mean homosexual to straight people, we could use it >without getting our heads beaten in. Unfortunately, it does not >provide that level of protection anymore. Reminds me of my days in school where one of my best friends came out of the closet. We'd go out to dinner and he'd be sensitive about talking about gays in public, so we decided on a codeword. We always talked about "engineers." Andy Tannenbaum Masscomp Inc Westford MA (617) 692-6200 x274
hartwell@CSL-Vax.ARPA (Steve Hartwell) (08/16/84)
Ah, now THERE's some fun... I'd love to compile a list of euphamisms
used for 'gay' when describing someone you know to another gay person,
while protecting his/her right to privacy in case you are overheard.
Or just to be whimsical.
Most gay men know "Oh, he's 'family'.". I have used, on occasion,
"He's a member of the church". That has Victorian roots (ala Oscar Wilde),
supposedly explaining why a man 35 years old hasn't gotten married yet.
Also Victorian is "musical", though I've never heard it used in speech.
There must be others. Anybody know of any?
--
Steve Hartwell, Computer Science Lab, Stanford University
{ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!csl-vax!hartwell, hartwell@SU-Shasta.ARPApeduto@pyuxv.UUCP (S A Peduto) (08/16/84)
The Farmer and Henly reference I gave earlier on this issue traces the word Gay to a French criminal's phrase which meant -- "to use a man's penis". I don't have F&H here at the office, so I can't quote exactly, but the reference is Farmer and Henley, A Dictionary of Slang and its Analogues, reprinted by Arno Press, a division of Times Books. The usage is at least as old as the mid- 19th century, and probably dates from the late 18th. I'm told Boswell dates it from the Middle Ages.
graham@convex.UUCP (08/17/84)
#R:convex:50600001:convex:50600002:000:689 convex!graham Aug 17 14:07:00 1984 > The word "gay" has been appropiated by the homosexual community. Prior to > that, it was often used with its old meaning: having or showing a joyous > mood. I object to the corruption of this word by the homosexual movement. > What is "gay" (in the old sense of the word) about homosexuality? Perhaps the original question was badly stated. From all the anguish about homosexuality by homosexuals, it seems that there is little about homosexuality to make its participants joyous, especially about being homosexual? Why not call yourselves the "quandrous(continually in a state of quandary)" community? Marv Graham; Convex Computer Corp. {allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!graham
dyer@wivax.UUCP (Stephen Dyer) (08/21/84)
One of my roommates uses the word "kabuki" as a euphemism for "gay." "Is he kabuki?" -- /Steve Dyer decvax!bbncca!sdyer sdyer@bbncca.ARPA