gerber@mit-athena.ARPA (Andrew S Gerber) (10/03/84)
Ken,
I thought this might be of use to you after your last posting.
It is extracted from:
A Primer on How to Work With the USENET Community
Chuq Von Rospach (nsc!chuqui)
and should remind you that we all are human, and have to live on
this planet together, for better or for worse:
(also, see NYTimes, Oct 2, front page science section)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never Forget that the Person on the Other Side is Human
Because your interaction with the network is through a computer it is easy
to forget that there are people "out there." Situations arise where
emotions erupt into a verbal free-for-all that can lead to hurt feelings.
Please remember that people all over the world are reading your words. Do
not attack people if you cannot persuade them with your presentation of
the facts. Screaming, cursing, and abusing others only serves to make
people think less of you and be less willing to help you when you need it.
If you are upset at something or someone, wait until you have had a chance
to calm down and think about it. A cup of coffee or a good night's sleep
works wonders on your perspective. Hasty words create more problems than
they solve. Try not to say anything to others you would not say to them
in person in a room full of people.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, lets see what juicy lines we find from Ken:
Ken-> And never to know that one woman
who above all others fills your life as a woman, to
stand beside her as she gives birth to your child -
Doesn't hurt you? YOU LEAPING SCREAMING ASSHOLE!!
Ken, sometimes I wonder why I reply. I should just stand back and let
you dig your own grave. Does it surprise you to know that I take
personal offense at your comments? Would you like to be called a
LEAPING SCREAMING ASSHOLE? That's pretty rude, Ken. If I was female, I
sure hope that I wouldn't have to 'fill your life.' It must be a pretty
tedious job.
Ken-> Some laws against homosexuals ARE being enforced (in the
armed forces, - try waving it around in the park as a sign
of "affection" in the heartland or here in New Hampster
and see if the laws are being enforced).
I don't really want to imagine what 'waving it around in the park'
means. Whatever it is, I don't do it. And am I my brother
(homosexual's) keeper? Well, they can do what they want, but PLEASE
don't assume that all gay people are the same, Ken. It's really the
minority that have bathroom sex, visit the baths, get AIDS. Did you
know that according to the Center for Disease Control, the average AIDS
patient (gay male with AIDS) had more than 60 sexual partners a year?
And the percentage of those partners that were found in bathhouses were
about 85%. I'm NOT trying to justify this, I think it's AWFUL, but
please don't paint us all with the same brush. That's like saying that
all black people are stupid and walk around carrying ghetto blasters. It
MAY be TRUE in a few cases, but BY and LARGE it's a gross
generalization.
Ken--> And of course we know that things are not going to revert
to the bad old days in the closet, right? Wrong bozo.
See below.
Bozo? Read the paragraphs on top again, once or twice.
Ken--> I'm reminded of the first Russian soldiers into Berlin.
They were very well behaved towards the civilians. Just
interested in killing German soldiers. But one of them
is quoted as saying, "Look out for those who come behind
us. They are pigs." He was right. And my point here is
that you might be a lot better off than you think if I DID
set the values. I'm not for putting you all in jail - yet!
(THANK YOU, ken. You're SO kind. *sarcasm*)
A sea story-> (oh goody) To illustrate my limits.
I remember being in a long line in boot camp, short
arm inspection or something, and there was this guy
on the floor in the hall who couldn't take the whole
boot camp bit and was crying. I felt so bad I wanted
to step out of line and comfort him. Some of the other
guys were kicking him as they went by. By the time I
came abreast of him I had decided to kick him too. So
I did! It's great to be part of a tradition!!
(It's great to be an a--hole)
(Sorry. I guess I should read the top, also)
Now the point of that little sea story, in case you
missed it, is that there are values and there are
values.
Tell me Ken, when you see someone suffering, do you enjoy making them
suffer more? And PLEASE STOP this 'military defense' of your points. I
KNOW (from extrapolation on personal experience) that there are
THOUSANDS of gays in the military around the country. And they serve
their country well. Stop thinking that people are EXCLUSIVLY gay. That
is not the case. Being gay is NOT the #1 thing in the lives of many
homosexuals. (I'll admit, though, it is the #1 thing for SOME people)
As for your statement that homosexual behavior is becoming more
accepted, why there is evidence that that is just not so, even
with the new T.V. shows. We are just now entering into the time
(Sorry. I don't watch tv, nor have the time or desire to do so.)
when the baby boomers are coming of age and THEY are the ones
who will be setting the values over the next quarter century!
Guess what? They are more conservative than their parents!
Read the poles. They are by a huge majority for Reagan and
(I have never tried to read a polish person. They might get mad)
his values. You do know where he stands on the moral issue
don't you?
One of the BEST things about Raygun :-) is that he HASN'T done to much
about moral issues. And with a son like his...... (two :-)
Andy:--> (from prev. posting)
>And in reference to pedophelia, it DOES NOT BELONG HERE! Pedophelia is
>not limited to gays AT ALL, why stick it on us. Sure, it's a problem
>but in the same way murder is a problem around society, it's not a
>specifically GAY problem.
** Keep saying that, . . . as the mob puts the rope around
your chicken neck. Besides I'm only calling you on the
part that IS your problem - the gays who ARE pedophelia
prone. But I feel I've answered this in my replies to
Richard Johnson and Steve Dyer.
Are they my problem, Ken? I'm not so sure. Are the whites in the
ghetto your problem? Are the men who rape little girls 'your' problem?
Also, read the paragraph atop this posting AGAIN! What do you mean by
'chicken neck'? You're getting REALLY rude. I'm sure you'll be
leading that mob, Ken, but I intend to meet you (and whatever mob you've
gathered) with a machine gun and plenty of bullets.
Ken--> I just know you'll wake up tomorrow morning and say I was
right and go out and grab a woman. (If you get stuck on
what to do after you grab call me.)
Ken, that's really funny. Havn't you ever had anyone tell you how the
gay guys get all the girls? Do you think I havn't at least TRIED it
with one (or two...) girls. Maybe YOU should call ME when YOU need
help.
Ken---> Shiiiiiit!
I won't say it again.
Ken--> Love ya,
Ken Arndt
Y'know Ken... I love ya too. You're really an interesting person.
Misinformed, reactionary, slightly insane, but very interesting.
I'd love to meet you some time (being that we both work for
|d|i|g|i|t|a|l| in one way or another, we might.)
Andrew Gerber
decvax!mit-athena!gerber
P.S. Hey, everyone out there who's reading this. I'd appreciate some
feedback. I didn't cook all this up in a minute. Send me mail.gam@amdahl.UUCP (Gordon A. Moffett) (10/04/84)
Andrew, I think you and many other people are missing a lot that
Ken has to say. (Yes, I'm serious!).
His anecdote about kicking the guy in boot camp was an interesting
point that no matter how wonderful and loving we think we are
we like to follow the crowd ('we' is us people generally). (Ironically
enough, that appears to be the attitude taken towards Ken by some
readers of this newsgroup).
One of Ken's points is that many homosexuals may be kidding themselves
that things are just getting better and will continue to do so.
I agree that things are better for Gay people -- in urban centers
and tolerant communities; but what about in The Sticks, in
Podunk, etc?
Further, Ken points out that this air of liberal tolerance can disappear
at any time -- Mr. Falwell reaches far more people than any Gay spokespeople.
Ken is right on this point, too, and I think that is something to
worry about. Not that Mr. Falwell does not have his right to speak
but that there isn't really "equal time" (and no I don't suggest
legal enforcement of equal time, either).
Ken is an abbrasive annoying person, but he makes many points I think
should be heeded. I am beginning to believe that he IS trying help Gay
people, in his own irritating insulting way. It's just that by paying
attention to the form and not the content, you're missing it.
A while ago, in my last defense of Ken Arndt, someone said something
like "oh, he quotes some shit from Masters and Johnson and you're
impressed." It just so happens that I have read the same "shit"
myself, and I was trying to point out that the information wasn't
biased but everyone else thought it was because if Ken Arndt said it
it can't be true. I don't see how people can delude themselves like
this...
Also quoting the Net Etiquette to Ken won't help. He's clearly
beyond that now. Not that his behavior is something you want
to encourage, of course, but Ken doesn't strike me as someone
who'd fall on his knees begging forgiveness for transgressing
against Rules of Etiquette.
Finally, I am not entirely thrilled of speaking in support of Ken Arndt,
but I've always enjoyed taking the (in this case) minority viewpoint,
especially when it offers something of value.
I do have some rebuttals for Ken to be posted later, but I didn't
want to join the "Let's beat up Ken" crowd.
Again, don't mistake the form for the content.
--
Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!gam
[ The opinons expressed in this article are completely fictious. Any
similarity between these opinions and the opinions of any persons
living or dead is entirely coincidental. ]