arndt@lymph.DEC (10/10/84)
Byron run. Run Byron run.
(old Ken)
>Glad you said that my statement to the effect that Aids is "homosexually
>vectored" is SOMEWHAT imprecise!
>It's not the fact of transfusions (the act) that causes AIDS.
>By the way, Aids is also transmitted through semen and some feel through
>saliva.
(Byron's reply)
Precisely what I was trying to indicate, Kenny. AIDS is serum-vectored
not 'homosexual vectored.'
***(Ken now)
Wrong!!! A vector is, "an insect or other ORGANISM (italics
mine) transmitting germs or other agents of disease" - Am Coll. Dict.
The serum is merely the medium the virus is in, NOT the vector. Or to put it
another way, the action (behavior) of the vector passes the virus, the serum is
neutral. It is the behavior of the vector, in this case homosexuals which
passes on the disease. Such as anal intercourse, which often causes minute
tearing of the small blood vessels in the lower bowel and makes possible the
passing of the virus. Also the passing of other serums (saliva, semen)
transmits the virus.
************************
NOW HEAR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!
************************
I am NOT, that is NOT, saying that homosexuals are responsible for AIDS!
The virus is, of course!! They are responsible (the promiscuous ones, remember
the same way promiscuous hetrosexuals are responsible for other sexually
related diseases) for the TRANSMISSION of the disease virus!!!!!
If you, or anyone else, cares to remember I started this whole thing by saying
"smugly of course" AIDS would be a hammar blow to drive the homosexuals back
into the closet and what are the gays doing about that. The answer so soon
forthcoming, from Steve Dyer, et al, was "EEk, get away from me, you rough
trade you. How dare you even ASK such a question, etc., etc." They treated
me like a fart at a cheeze tasters ball. I know, I know, I didn't say "may
I" and tell how much I think you all contribute to civilization and what
great guys and gals you all are otherwise.
I would have thought a reasonable response would have been, "yes we have a
problem and here is what we are doing about it . . . ie. speaking out against
bath house sex as unhealthy if not psychologically, then from a physical
standpoint. Remember gang, it's not just AIDS out there haunting the gay
community! There are a raft of nasties of which the gay community is the
vector.
(Byron answers previous posting)
The first identifiable breakout just happens
to have been in the gay population. It could have as easily been among
drug addicts, pro football players or army privates. The first instances
of Bubonic plague were recorded among sailors in the 13th Century. That
doesn't mean they were in any sense responsible for it. Was the American
Legion responsible for Legionaire's Disease?
*****(Ken replies now)
Well, it actually started in Africa and the Carib. but yes in the
U.S.of A. it "came out" in the gay community. Again, I agree with you that
the gays are not responsible for the virus!!! But they ARE, that's ARE,
responsible for continuing to be the vector once it became known HOW the
virus was passed!! To take measures (filter blood supply, avoid contact, etc)
against the vector is a reasonable thing to do. And homosexuals themselves
are taking steps to guard against getting the disease.
**************
Note: No one is taking steps against the serum!! Wiping out spit, semen,
blood. Isn't that because the serum is not the vector???? What IS being
done, or at least ought to be done, is to take steps against the vector.
Bath houses ARE being closed. Often on the request of homosexual groups!
*************
(old Ken)
>What does "YOUR assertions notwithstanding, Aids is a potentially serious
>problem to the entire population . . . " mean?? The point of my postings
>was that very fact!!!
(old Byron)
It seems clear to me that the point of your postings is to try to place
blame. That doesn't help anyone who happens to contract AIDS and it
certainly doesn't protect either of us. Do you have anything constructive
to offer? If so, I missed it in the smart *ss comments.
****(new Ken now)
You muddle-headed shit-head! Promiscuous homosexuals ARE to
"blame" for passing on the virus!!! And now the more so since they KNOW
they are the vector. But that is NOT the point of my postings. You, and
your clones, -: appear to me to be like a little child caught at something
or other. Trying to point to anything else but themselves. The point of all
my postings was, and is, to get responses from the gay community as to how
they plan to deal with the very real dangers that confront them. Lucky for
you all gays are not like the few on this net who can't seem to deal with
me. There isn't anyone who says that the homosexual community isn't the
vector for these diseases!!!!! That's no news. That's not the point of
any of my postings.
I see a tidal wave of events shaping up before the gay community that will
wipe them out!!!! You mumble and press the "n" key. Great! Maybe the
Smithsonian will be able to preserve a few of you in pickle jars.
[By the way, I have been toying with a piece on the impact of "modern" ethics
as seen in statements by bioethicists on abortion, on the homosexual community.
That is, if gays are ever seen as a "diseased" danger, a quality of life issue,
or a threat to the majority's value system if that value system doesn't include
any idea of the value of the individual. Do the new "ethics" set the stage
for sending the gays to the "showers"?]
(old Ken)
>You do have a reason to be frightened. Tonight on the NBC nightly noise
>there was an extended (180 sec.- so it was a heavy topic) piece on children
>with Aids.
(old Byron)
So what are YOU going to do about it? If AIDS is in the general population
then it is a public health problem and everyone's responsibility. What
are you trying to do? From the tone and content of your postings all I
can gather is that you are asking gays to take it back! The smugness
that frightens me is that you seem to think you are somehow immune.
I got news for you. Viruses mutate. It's what they do. That's how
the disease got here in the first place according to some. Should
this bug 'decide' to become airborne then we're all in a heap o' trouble
and no amount of screaming that 'the gays did it' is going to get us
out of that trouble.
************(Ken now)
I told YOU they mutate. And yes some feel that's where this outbreak
came from. It's only a half-brainer to figure out what we'll do if it gets
into the general public. PANIC!!!! And look for SCAPEGOATS!! And isolate
them!!! Guess who?
It is partly because of my concern for myself that I have raised the issue
with you. I am potentially at risk. Because of YOU (or your promiscuous
fellows).
What am I doing??? Well, for starters I've given you all more information
than you've ever seen on this net. I've gone to the vector and asked for
a plan of action. Some of you ARE in homosexual organizations. It doesn't
appear that you know of any action to stop the disease. Just treat it.
I'm asking you to take it back?? Cute but stupid. Not to mention a lie.
Smug?! Is that your best answer?? Sad.
What am I doing??? See below in the very next section. Aren't I asking you
to take some action. Tell me, to the best of your memory, has anyone on the
net said perhaps the gays should relook at their "lifestyles" even if only
during the present health crisis? Maybe one or two touched on it, but most
(like you) just stood on a chair and pulled up their skirts.
(old Ken)
>Hey, it's getting bigger by the minute. You've got to do more than raise
>funds, teach each other to check for sores first and man hotlines. Hint:
>You've got to speak to fellow gays about behavior patterns (which might
>entail relooking at "lifestyles" ((baths, bars, etc.))).
>How about looking at the "sexual revolution"? Remember the young Aids
>victim I quoted as saying, "We were told that sex was liberating and more
>sex was more liberating."
>Rich Johnson I believe it was, whines about, "what ever happened to 'do your
>own thing?'" It never was. One person alone to the limits of nature but
>not in a society. That's the reason for government. Laws.
>Another, Gerber, asks "am I my brother (homosexual's) keeper?" What a waste-
>land if the answer to that is no!!
(old Byron)
Isn't this all a little like locking the barn door after the horses have
escaped? I went through the sexual revolution and never even caught cold.
My experience doesn't mean a d*mn thing either. We agree that AIDS is
a tragedy, now WHAT ARE YOU AND I GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
******(new Ken)
Looking at it as locking the barn door is just plain stupid - and
dangerous for the gays. Changing promiscuous behavior NOW could provent
a lot of cases of AIDS.
Yes, by all means, let's get together and come up with "what you and I are
going to do about it."
(old Ken)
>So rather than marching with Sister Boom Boom and the Children's Crusade
>you should be marching the other way! Dump the freaks before they drag -:
>you down with them. Of course by dump them I mean their positions.
(old Byron)
That's why I'm bothering to reply to you. Dumping the freaks before they
drag me down with them. I got little use for someone who sits in corners
and rants and raves, gleefully pointing out victims with a singular lack
of compassion, but hasn't the desire to do something constructive.
**********(new Ken)
Come on Byron. Sure I'm not Mr. Congeniality, but "gleefully
pointing out victims"?? Piss off! And just how compasionate is your
"dumping the freaks before they drag me down with them."?
(old Ken)
>Hey, guess what. There goes the last of the wine and I'm leaning over too
>far to straighten up. Hope my wife finds me in the morning.
(old Byron)
Try going on the wagon.
****n(new Ken) I found out a long time ago, in the Navy, that I'm
not a drinker (puking all over myself soon got boring), two or three glasses
of wine once in a while puts me away. I also found out I was not a gambler,
but that's another story!
You don't seem to know any more about AIDS, etc. than you do about biblical
texts. What are you doing in net.religion? I know, you have a terminal.
Thanks for the chat,
Ken Arndt