rob@ptsfa.UUCP (Rob Bernardo) (04/17/85)
It wasn't till I was 29 that I got a close view of a relationship
between gay men that resembled a marriage: a very strong committment
to a permanent relationship, a home owned jointly, etc. I had been
socially self-identified gay for the preceding ten years and fairly politically
active in the gay movement all that time, and still it was this
first hand view of a home life of gay men that was instrumental
in the formation of my own vision of "settling down". I now have a very strong
appreciation for the value of role models. It makes me wonder where
I'd be now if there had been similar gay role models visible earlier
on in my life.
I wonder what role was played by role models for the other gay and lesbian
subscribers to net.motss: Do you desire creating a home with a significant
other? Have you done so and how? Are you aware of the role of any role models
in your vision of your existent or desired home?
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell, San Francisco, California
{ihnp4,ucbvax,cbosgd,decwrl,amd70,fortune,zehntel}!dual!ptsfa!rob
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\ / lmf@drutx.UUCP (FullerL) (04/19/85)
I am presently in a settled committed relationship with my partner and it's wonderful. We are also parents. They are her biological children and we are trying to arrange for the schools, etc. to recognize me in terms of ability to give permission and receive information. We haven't got that all worked out yet. I'm sure it will have to be renegotiated each year with each new teacher. We are also setting up wills and power of attorney papers so the guardianship of the children will be spelled out. Also we will be able to visit each other as familiy if we are in the hospital and make medical and other decisions for each other if one of us is unable to. We of course are also each others beneficiarys if anything happens to one of us. We found a lesbian lawyer with experience in this area to set this all us for us. (By the way neither of us have a great deal of money, at all) Most of my role models came from books when I first came out. Then I got to know more lesbians and many of them were in longterm committed relationships. Some of the relationships have lasted and some have not. I don't know anyone who has been in a relationship for say 10 years at this point and it would be nice to see some people who have managed to stay together and happy for many years. I'm convinced that it's possible, though. I was conditioned to believe in lifelong relationships (my parents have had a reasonably good marriage for 30 years). I don't remember thinking that I had to give up the idea of a lifelong relationship when I discovered that I was a lesbian. Lori Fuller ihnp4!drutx!lmf
schuster@Shasta.ARPA (04/20/85)
> > I wonder what role was played by role models for the other gay and lesbian > subscribers to net.motss: Do you desire creating a home with a significant > other? Have you done so and how? Are you aware of the role of any role models > in your vision of your existent or desired home? > Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell, San Francisco, California Well, I'll put in a plug for how important role models are. They are more important than practically anything else towards achieving some measure of self esteem, especially when you are young. I came out when I was about 14/15. Not until I was 17 did I actually meet anyone I could call a role model. I can not say how much good he did for me. This was not any sort of love/sexual relationship, we were just good buddies who went out and did things together. He was a friend of my mother's (yes I had parental support) and she encouraged the friendship. I went from completely introverted and pretty down on where I fit in to realizing that I wasn't alone and that other people (I met through him) were leading perfectly decent lives, and some of them were in their 50s and 60s. When I compare how he affected my life to friends of mine who went through years of hell because there was no one they knew who led anything remotely resembling a life, I feel very, very lucky. There is a goal in my eyes behind visibility -- think of every teenage girl and boy who are thinking they are the only soul in the universe. All they need to feel comfortable with themselves is to see that other people have dealt with similar problems and overcome them. (yeah - so I'm an incurable romantic) As for answering some of the questions asked by Rob -- I'm still dealing with ideas of how I'd like to settle down. I also think his questions were aimed towards an older nonstudent audience, so I'll butt out. -- Jay Schuster schuster@su-pescadero.arpa ...!decvax!decwrl!shasta!schuster
augustc@zeus.UUCP (Augustine T. Chan) (04/20/85)
Long term gay relationships do exist. My mother's family has as friends a lesbian couple who has been together for God knows how many years. They have an adopted daughter who is married and has kids so they are both grandmothers. They used to live with the mother of one of them; the mother passed away ten years ago at 92. The two of them are now in their late 70's. BTW this happened in China. Augustine C.
asente@Cascade.ARPA (04/24/85)
Lori Fuller says: > Most of my role models came from books when I first came out. Then I got > to know more lesbians and many of them were in longterm committed relationships. > Some of the relationships have lasted and some have not. I don't know anyone > who has been in a relationship for say 10 years at this point and it would > be nice to see some people who have managed to stay together and happy for > many years. I'm convinced that it's possible, though. > > I was conditioned to believe in lifelong relationships (my parents have had > a reasonably good marriage for 30 years). I don't remember thinking that > I had to give up the idea of a lifelong relationship when I discovered that > I was a lesbian. > Lori Fuller ihnp4!drutx!lmf I believe that one reason that same-sex relationships tend to be less enduring than marriages is simply that the option of marriage is not available. (Note that I said "tend to be," not "aren't." I sincerely hope that my current relationship lasts as long as I do.) There isn't any significant difference in the longevity of gay relationships and unmarried straight relationships that I can see. Marriage provides a barrier that is to be overcome if you want to break up; you can't just pack your bag and leave. Thus I think that there is more incentive to try to iron things out and not let the emotions of the moment dictate your decisions. On the other hand, I think that the major reason for the increase in divorce rate recently is that people are no longer willing to stay in marriages that make them unhappy just because of the stigma that used to be attached to divorce. -paul asente ...decwrl!Glacier!Cascade!asente asente@Cascade.ARPA "Love me 'till my heart stops, Love me 'till I'm dead." -Talking Heads
rjd@linus.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (04/24/85)
O---O Jay Schuster (Shasta!schuster), 20 Apr 85:
O
O Well, I'll put in a plug for how important role models are. They
O are more important than practically anything else towards achieving
O some measure of self esteem, especially when you are young.
O
O There is a goal in my eyes behind visibility -- think of every
O teenage girl and boy who are thinking they are the only soul in
O the universe. All they need to feel comfortable with themselves
O is to see that other people have dealt with similar problems and
O overcome them. (yeah - so I'm an incurable romantic)
O
O---O
All you gays in college, come out.
Last year I was a Senior in college. Sometime in late April, a Sophmore
woman came up to me near the mailboxes outside the dining hall. She looked
familiar; my Residential College (i.e., dorm) housed about 300 people. She
said she wanted to thank me for being out. It was a very awkard moment for
both of us. She didn't really know what to say, I didn't really know how to
react. I think I just sort of acted nonchalant, just saying thank-you. The
exchange only lasted a minute or two. I can't even remember who the woman is.
But as time went by I remembered/realized that way back (2-3 years earlier)
when I first began to come out one of my big internal arguements was this:
I will come out because if more people would come gays would
be less oppressed. Also, someone out there doesn't know that
coming out is really possible. Also, it's too hard to casually
meet real (gay) people in the closet.
Well, gays haven't made great political strides in the past 3 or 4 years
because of me. And, I still haven't met the boy next door. But, I have
helped one person feel a little more at ease.
Which is not to say that coming out is martyrdom. Once I did come out, I
realized that those initial three reasons paled in comparison to not having
to hide from my friends. Big Secrets don't make for good relationships
with other people. And Constant Little Lies give you a bad view of the
world. These reasons though were far too abstract to motivate me to come out.
So, if you're in college, and you're reading this NOW, seriously think
about coming out. I can't tell you that it's a Bed of Roses, it's not.
But, for me, it was well worth the trip.
Robert Debenedictis