levasseur@morgan.DEC (Ray EMD & S Admin 223-5027) (08/28/85)
Gay Dating Etiquette
or
Whaddaya Do After the Initial Hello
Jason
This topic has come up a few times in gay social groups I've been in. We've
had a lot of fun exchanging ideas on how one should act when a relationship
starts forming. I'm not just talking about 20 year lover relationships, but any-
thing that survives past the initial hello stage. Some go on to develope into
long term friendships, some never make it past an evening of bar or dinner party
chatter and there's a large grey area in between.
I've put down bars from time to time but have also enjoyed the comradeship
of fellow gays. Since I'm single, there come times when I get a little lonely
for some male companionship. It's hard and sometimes dangerous to approach some-
one in a store or on the street and strike up conversation unless you're pretty
sure that the other person is gay and also interested. In the old days shortly
after I came out, I only looked for one thing "Sex!" As I've gotten older and
the times more hazardous to my health, I've opted more and more for just an ev-
ening of pleasant conversation with a new face. There are those times when the
company of my roomate (even though I enjoy his company) still leaves me feeling
lonely, so I may drop into a local gay pub for some companionship. I don't al-
ways find it but just being among others takes the edge of my lonliness. How do
I get to know that stranger in the corner, I dunno, it just happens if the stars
and chemistry are right.
The vast majority of interpersonal relationships I find are fleeting at
best. Most fall under the category of the eight point stroke and go something
like this:
He "Hi"
Me "Hi"
He "Nice night"
Me "Yeah, sure is"
He "How ya doin"
Me "Not bad, you?"
He "Fine, well see ya"
Me "Yeah see ya, have a good night"
I'm sure that most of you are quite familiar with this little scenario. I've
come to accept it for what it is, an acknowledgment of my presence and not an
offer for marriage or an evening of fun. He may also be feeling me out to see
if I'm available or where my head is at. Striking up a conversation that will
keep rolling takes some intuition on the part of the initiator. You have to read
his body language as well as listen to what's said. You also have to get past
the initial "Hi". One way to jump start an evening's chat is to try bringing up
a topic that he might be interested in; not a heavy life or death topic, maybe
something that happended to you during the day. The alternative to the eight
point stroke might go something like this:
He "Hi, How ya doin?"
Me "Ok! Wow I just had to get out for a drink, I've been at home de-bugging
Cobol code"
He "That's a bitch. I'm a programmer analyst and can sympathize. Where do you
work?"
Me "On and on and on, etc."
Of course if your opening line leaves him looking puzzled, you might change
the subject or scrap the attempt to get to know him better. It's best to keep
the first few minutes casual "Oh I just got out of a really good movie" or
something similar might work better since most of us can relate to a good movie,
excellent meal, or nice day at the beach. It's best not to share negative stuff
at first like "Gee I hate this place, I'm really bummed out". More than likely
the other party will excuse himself and wander off into the crowd since he prob-
ably has enough on his mind as it is and doesn't need to hear your apocalyptic
observations on life. A lot of guys in the bar may be in marginally bad moods
and are looking for somone cheerful to chat with. Leave your old fart routine
at the door and you'll attract more people.
The opening line doesn't have to be about any subject in particular but can
be an honest compliment. Everyone enjoys a little flattery now and then. Letting
the other person know he has good taste, etc gives him a little positive stroke.
When someone approaches and says, "I love your shirt, where did you get it?", it
lets me know that he noticed and commented on my taste in a positive manner. I
usually brush aside the compliments like, "Wow! you must be really hung, whatta!
basket you're pushing!" I've found that most guys respond in a friendly manner
to compliments in the "That's a beautiful gold chain you're wearing" and will
usually want to tell you about whatever you've paid them a positive stroke for.
As the two of you talk more he may offer to buy you a drink. I'll usually
accept the first one, then offer to reciprocate if we're still sitting together.
I don't feel comfortable when a person wants to keep buying me drinks since
there can be a subliminal expectation by the other for the rest of the evening.
If I'm not interested, I either excuse myself or buy my own drinks and politely
let him know that I'm really not interested in going home with him but enjoy his
company. If he really likes being with you, he'll stay after you've made your-
self clear.
I can usually tell pretty early into our meeting what the other man's mot-
ives are. If he gropes me and keeps making innuendos right from the start, then
I know what's on his mind. I prefer getting to know a person first and usually
brush away the hungry gropers. I've found that a lot of the men who come on
really strong with the physical exploring are usually pretty drunk and I'll
bow out as soon as possible.
It's not considered polite to barge into a group of two or more people unless
you're invited to join them. I get a little flustered if a stranger starts in-
truding when I'm chatting with a friend or date; it's rude, don't do it! The
bars are usually filled with small clusters of friends and lovers. It can be
hard for the lone wolf to fit in. It took me many years to understand why the
lone wolf isn't invited into the fold. Have you ever noticed that on one night
you may run into someone you know and get introduced to his little group of bar
pals. They get to know you and you'll usually wind up having fun. ON another
night you're "Alone!" No one is able to see what you're really like as you lurk
in the shadows. When you're with a group and laughing/carrying on, others can
see that you're having fun and are therefore more attractive in a social sense.
When you're alone, you become "The Dark Stranger" and therefore a little more
unapproachable. You could be a cop, a straight who wandered into the bar or
anything else for that matter. The patrons tend to feel more comfortable if it
seems you know others and have friends here. I've always been curious to see
a bar where no one knew anyone else. What level of interaction would take place?
I prefer the gay neighborhood pub to the disco if I want to meet new people
since it's hard to converse over 130 db of music. You're more prone to instant
rejection in the dance bars since a lot of men come to be "Seen". Some are here
for show and only want to be seen with the fabulous dancer or the real looker.
I only find the dance bars to be fun when I'm with a group of friends.
Wherever you are; party, cruise bar or disco the time may come when you're
asked to come over for a drink or phone numbers are exchanged for a future date.
Most men I've met never follow up on the offered phone numbers and I've come to
accept this for what it is; a form of compliment of the moment. If the person
you've spent the evening with offers no more than a, "I enjoyed meeting you"
don't get upset or feel rejected. They may be tired or just wanted someone to
chat the night away with. I've also found that many men are now being cautious
about asking somene over for sex in light of the AIDS crisis. In a lot of ways
I feel the same way and enjoy a pleasant night of companionship and laughter
more than a hot roll in the hay.
A lot of men (myself included) have felt hurt and used when the person we
may have slept with the night before snubs us the following night at the bar.
Take it for what it is, a trick, nothing more. The person may not have been
interested at all in getting to know you but just wanted to get laid. They
know all the secrets you hide beneath your clothes and probably lost interest.
It's best just to forget these guys. They may have also said all kinds of nice
things in bed; take them with a grain of salt, unless there's continued inter-
est. Yes! you were used, accept the fact!
I can almost always tell when an offer to go back to their place is coming.
The conversation tends to die down and there might be a long pregnant silence
while the other party composes the offer in his head. He may be afriad that I'll
refuse his offer so he hesitates. The one liners that break the ice are witty
ones that catch me off guard. The line I used once was, "Oh shit! Jeeeze I have
to leave. I just remembered that I left a porno tape in the vcr and I don't want
the cat watching it, he's only 6 months old. Would you like to come over?" The
other man just looked sort of puzzled and answered, "Yeah!" while laughing.
Visiting another guy's place for the first time can be interesting and also
a chance to find out more about him from the apartment's furnishings. I've al-
ways headed for their bookcases or record cabinets first; that is, after asking
permission to browse their book and music libraries. You can learn a lot about
the depth of a person from the material he reads and listens to. What kind of
impression would you initially get from a stark apartment where there were only
a stack of porno magazines and some scratched up disco singles? Since I'm into
audio and video, I'll look over their equipment if there is any and maybe com-
pare notes on high tech toys. If you see anything that you find interesting
it's ok to ask about it or compliment them but not to ask right off the bat,
"Hey! how much ya pay for this?" I usually wait until they offer to show me
their place and not explore on my own; after all, it is an invasion of privacy
and this is their home. I expect the same when someone visits me for the first
time. We'll skip over the subject of the sex that may follow; if it's offered,
it's offered! Let's say that you ask someone home and have a bad feeling about
the invitation. All of a sudden something about the person doesn't seem quite
right; trust your sixth sense. Even if he's in your living room you can pol-
itely decline the evening's pleasures. I have had this happen a couple of times
and there were no hard feelings when I told the other guy, "I'm really sorry
but I really am tired and shouldn't have asked you home tonight. Let's just
sit and talk for a while and maybe we can connect another time". You can let
out the sigh of relief after the door's closed behind them.
Maybe the two of you have just slept together, maybe not. Either way, the
phone rings and he asked you over to dinner. Does he want me to spend the night?
Does he expect me to bring desert? I can get both questions answered by asking
,"anything you want me to bring?" or casually asking, "should I bring my tooth-
brush?" So much can be inferred from an invitation and there are subtle ways of
finding out just how much. I've had times when I showed up for dinner and the
host was disappointed that I didn't have a change of clothes for the next day;
the invitation wasn't clear enough. I asked one guy over, "Would you like to
come over for a while and have dinner?" He showed up with a shoulder bag filled
with a week's worth of clothes. Let them know what you consider a while to be
so as to avoid embarassment later.
The other kind of dinner invitation is, "I'de like to take you out to din-
ner". Who's gonna pick up the tab? I'm a little too shy to respond with, "Wow!
you treating?" if I'm not sure he's offering to just invite me along or to pay
the check. I'll covertly pick his brain by responding with something like, 'Gee
X, it's nice of you to ask me to the Ritz for dinner but I'm kinda broke this
week." If he was planning to treat, he'll let you know. Gay dating tends to be
more Dutch Treat, with both parties splitting the tab than the traditional male
female date.
If the person you invite out is someone who there's mutual erotic attraction
to then it's not very nice to dump him on a date for something hotter. I have
found it very insulting when I'm asked on an obvious date and the other guy
disappears with someone else; leaving me hanging there alone. I think that this
is one of the lowest forms of insults. When I have a date with someone; I'm with
them whether it be at a bar, disco or restaurant. If I run into friends I in-
troduce my date and work him into the conversation so he won't feel left out.
I've seen too many men leave their date hanging in a corner while they hobnob
with friends over drinks. Rule of thumb is, if you don't like it done to you,
don't do it to others. Anyone who enjoys being dumped on needs his head exam-
ined in the first place. Another subtle way of dumping on a date is showing
up late; not 15 or 20 minutes, but sometimes an hour or more. Too many gay men
I've met find it stylish to show up late. I don't like to be kept waiting at
a restaurant or club and know that others don't either. I will get ready in
enough time to show up at least on time or a few minutes early. This gives me
a chance to relax a little before my friend arrives. It also lets him know
that I care enough to show up when expected. Of course there are those guys
who just can't pull it together and would be late for their own funeral. If
you know that you're going to run behind schedule and you can contact the
other person, then give him a call. This way he can adjust his schedule ac-
cordingly. I won't even comment about guys who habitually stand people up
in favor of a last minute better offer. No consideration whatsoever and not
worth pursueing further.
There have been men that I met where we had sex in the beginning and the
relationship wound up becomming non sexual; just friends. Do you really enjoy
the other's company but the spark just isn't there. Don't lead them on! I've
seen many men sleep with someone for months and let the other fall in love,
then pull the rug out from under them. If you don't really feel that a relat-
ionship is in the cards then let the other know that it might be better if the
two of you not have sex. My experience with Danny Boy taught me how much one
can get hurt when there seems to be love on a two way street and the other is
only bluffing while he waits for mister right. Leading someone on is cruel!
This applies to friends as well as a developing relationship; the topic
of gifts. If I were seeing a man for a few months and he offered me a very
expensive gift, I tend to politely turn it down, telling him that I feel it's
a bit early for this sort of offering. Of course some guys are gold diggers
and will graciously accept the keys to the Rolls after the second date. If
I really enjoy the other guy's companionship, there are little gifts that let
him know I care but don't make him feel obligated or guilty. If we've been
seeing each other for a while and I know he likes dance mucic, I may mix a
special dance tape for him or pick up an album he's been wanting. The same
goes for books or small bric a brac. If you're thinking of offering a gift,
stop and think about how well you know one another and how imtimate the rel-
ationship is. You can scare someone off with a premature expensive gift as
fast as a social disease.
Another way of chasing off a budding friendship/relationship is to ob-
sessively pursue the other person. Now c'mon guys, I know some of you have done
this as I have. You meet a person and very quickly form an attachment. You call
the guy every hour on the hour to re-affirm that you're thinking of him. This
is usually found in a person who's going through a period of vulnerability or
insecurity; you need the other person to feel whole. Sooner or later (probably
sooner) they're going to get real tired of your obsessive barrage of,"I really
wanna see you","when?", and all the other innuendos that tell the guy you can't
stand being alone. American men are expected to be independent and the clinging
vine is usually pruned from the object of affection's black book. This is a
hard addiction to break and in gay life the clinging vine (especially in the
early formation of a friendship/relationship) is avoided by many. I've given up
my old bad habit of calling on the hour to make sure this new companion still
wants me. When the offer "call me, I want to see you" is held out, I'll call
once or twice, then leave the ball in his court. To water down an old phrase,
"If you want something, let it go. If it comes back it's yours, if it doesn't
it never was".
We'll all see countless "Hello, how are you? byes" as well as many who will
go on to become pub cronies who are never seen outside the bar and a smaller
percentage which will become closer friends. A lot of what you attract will dep-
end on your manners in the beginning.
Ray (aka) Jason
8/27/85