levasseur@morgan.DEC (Ray EMD & S Admin 223-5027) (10/30/85)
I sent the person who posted this personal mail as well as posting to the net. I've been having problems with getting through to a personal mail account but no problems with posting to network newsgroups. I've seen first hand a lot of what this guy is going through. You can flame me for my opin- ions but I think that they're fairly on target. >Subject: Can we have honest permanent love affairs? You may be prefectly able to but a lot of immature gay men, whether they be 20 or 50 cannot. Some of these guys just *don't* know what mature real love is! >to looking for a permanent relationship. The first one was a disaster but I >knew that it was from day one until day 730 or so. It lasted two years, >but was a relationship based on unrequited love. But I wanted to be with >someone so badly that I accepted the cheating, unfaithfulness, and everything >else for about two years. It was finally me who broke off this one. It's amazing how much we'll put up with in the name of love or thge fear of being alone. I've talked to countless others (myself included) who were willing to settle for some two timing turkey. Sometimes when the sex is truly cosmic with a person, an individual can become blinded by the lust. >just one person. Well, you guessed it, before long, I was in the same >situation: While knowing that the relationship was one-sided, and that I was >literally being shit on, I am great at rationalizing, so this one lasted >almost three years before I broke it off. I was victim to the same. Take a look at all of your relationships and try to see if there are any trends that form in the type person that you're attracting/attracted to. What kinds of conscious/semi conscious signals are you putting out. Maybe on some level the person is reading that you're willing to put up with a lot of emotional garbage. There are a lot of barracudas out there who just love finding professional victims. >A year went by, and wow, into my life at a time when I least expected it >walked my knight in shining armor! I said to myself, "See, you were right! >Love is posible." And the adage, "You are more apt to find the right person >when you are not actively seeking him," never seemed to be truer! This is true sometimes. Two of the turkeys I let myself fall in love with were when I wasn't really looking. Another question! where did you meet your lovers; in bars? Baths? other sexually charged environments? I've found that the people I got hitched up with in this kind of surrounding tended to be more promiscuous and less honest. Were the guys heavy drink- ers? A lot of alcoholics are fairly dishonest. Many are not honest with themselves, how can you expect honesty and true love from them? >loved anyone so much in my whole life. Whaever he wanted, we tried to work >out how to get it, or how to do it, or whatever. I changed my will to leave >virtually everything to him. To me, he was everything. Short of a crime, >I would have done just about anythiing for him. I might add that while I Only my own opinion but he may have picked up on the fact that you'de give all for him. Some guys will eat this up. Never give up your own personhood to please another! Many will get bored with a person like this and search out others. I learned the hard way that love is a two way street and will now only give as much as I recieve. Try not to give the other party all the power over your emotions. >Oh is love blind! When I first met him, he had just terminaed another >relationship. For a year or so when we lived together, it was the Right here tells me that the other guy probably wasn't ready for any form of permanent relationship. I tend to stay away from rebounds myself. They will cling to you until they get over the ex and then will want to fool around. you may have been used as a crutch. >About two weeks ago, I got a call from a good friend of his; a friend who >I felt never really cared for me, but that was o.k. He told me that he >and Michael had just broken up a two-year love-affair, and that I was a fool. >The caller went on to tell me that before him, there had been another "friend" >who was Michael's lover. Supposedly during this time, Michael and I were lovers. >I didn't believe the caller. I couldn't believe that caller even though >he called me again and told me things that I thought only Michael and I >would know about. Finally last Thursday, Michael blurted out the truth. >He had never loved me; I was good in the sack and he liked the first year >primarily for sexual reasons. There is a fair disparity in our incomes There are a lot of gay men who just love to inform one half of a couple about all the catty gossip surrounding their other half. Some guys love breaking couples up. There are also those who have real concern for the victimized lover and want to let him know what's happening so that he doesn't get hurt any more then he already is. I had friends of my last two ex's meet with me to let me know what I what I was seeing was not what I was getting. >Durng the six and one-half years, he told me time after time that he >loved me and I like a jerk believed him. Again! some gay men wouldn't know love if it slapped them in the face. I get very upset at guys who use the word love as freely as the word Fuck! How soon after the two of you met did you proclaim your love for each other? A lot of gay men I've met will tell me they love me after a week. These guys I have a very hard time believing; especially when it's while their legs are locked around my back....nuff said! >He is a con artist extraordinaire! He showed me how he hid his lovers from >me with a false back to one of the closets. His last lover actually lived with >him in OUR apartment! Incredible! How he could ever have managaed to juggle >the balls (non pun intended) to keep me ignorant for so long is unbelievable! >I had a key to our apartment. Just unreal how he was able to handle the >situation. In retrospect, there were clues, but I was too blind to see them. >I can now think of some times when he was hinting around about ending our >relationship, but I always came up with "the solution." In retrospect, Beware! there are more con artists out there than you can shake a stick at. Boy this guy went to great lengths at hiding things from you; false backed clos- et and all. My own ex-lovers???? pulled some stuff just about as outragious. I was the fool also until I caught them in the act. I stepped in on my first s.o. eagerly screwing the upstairs neigbor's brains out. He had the nerve to climb off the guy and exclaim, "it's not what you think at all, we were not having sex!" After three like that I'de rather be alone! Had my fill of hurt and infi- delity for a while. >1) Don't become paranoid or cynical, but be sure that you really see >what is going on! Six and one-half years is a long time - don't let it >happen to you! (Even if it is only 6 and one-half weeks!) I'm not really cynical but do *now* seriously listen to what the other party is saying. I'm getting better at reading between the lines and can pick out liars quite soon. This is when I politely excuse myself and let the budding romance go the way of the nickel cigar. A lot of these guys will be on their best behavior while in the throes of infatuation. Soon- er or later the other party's true colors will show through. I'm not as free to jump in head, hands and feet right from the beginning as when I was naive and believed everything a guy would say. >3) I'm sure that others on the net have gone through similar situations >even if perhaps not as trying. How do you get over it? How do you >accept that it was six and one-half yaars of your life? How can you ever >come to trust anyone else again? I can't really talk to anyone else about I get over it by pulling back and recounting the events that happened both good and bad. I try engrossing myself in activities and friends that I enjoy. It will take time to accept and let go of the feelings after 6.5 years. There are a lot of memories and feelings to sort out. Try not getting too wound up in promiscuity, it tends to be a dead end path as you know. Try to forget him! Even though it will be tempting, try not to snoop in on him and find out everything he's doing. You may have to avoid the mutual friends for a while. The old addage goes,"once bitten, twice shy". It will take a while for you to trust again after being so decieved. You'll have to regain trust in yourself also as a decision maker. Do not blame yourself now by saying things like, "geee what a stupid jerk I was". Learn from this/these experiences and find ways to avoid them in the future. >it because all of our friends were mutual friends. An irony: many of them >knew what he was doing, and some even threatened to blow the whistle, as >they thought I was truly a caring person and deserved much more than I >was getting. Some friends! No one ever told me! Not only have I been >played for the fool, but so many people know that I was played for the fool. >His former lover (after our 1 year together) won't even speak to him. His >last lover who called me finally left him over what he was doing to me. They may have been afraid to approach you with the news, not knowing how to say it or how you would take the revelation about his extra curricular activities. Are they supportive now? They may have figured that you knew the score and decided not to bring it up. Can't really say since I don't know these people. >p.s. In thinking about this, I become aware that this is just the kind of thing >that many of our critics say about us: We can't have lasting, trusting, >caring relations. Can we? or am I just a foolish romanticist? No! you're not a foolish romantic, if you are then I'm just as bad. Gay men do tend to be more promiscuous than married straight males. With all the social pressures acting against successful gay relationships, a lot of gay men don't know how to have one. The 9 years with my ex-wife taught me a lot about true love, honesty, fidelity and all the virtues I find very rare in the gay world. There other gay men who share your values but they tend to be invisible or settled into relationships themselves. The only visible relationships a lot of people see are like the ones you, me and others have had to put up with so this is all that our critics have to go with. They'll tend to ignore the two bachelors who have quietly lived next door together for the past 15 years outside of the gay ghetto. I hope that this helps in some ways. Who am I to say I have all the answers but I have been through a lot of what you're now feeling and can feel empath- etic. I've also sat with quite a few other men and acted as a crying towel for similar stories. It's good that you're able to talk about it. If you want to chat further, send me mail. Right now take care of yorself, you're number one! Regards, Ray
strickln@ihlpa.UUCP (stricklen) (11/01/85)
> >Subject: Can we have honest permanent love affairs? YES. > >But I wanted to be with > >someone so badly that I accepted the cheating, unfaithfulness, and everything > >else for about two years. But how honest was your love? If I may be so bold, it seems from this line that you were not seeking love as much as you were seeking security. > >Not only have I been > >played for the fool, but so many people know that I was played for the fool. Most persons can identify with these feelings. The last time this happened to me, I looked around at acquaintances who had been through similar circumstances. Most were calloused, untrusting, unbelieving. It looked ugly to me. I have always been on the naive side, probably more trusting than I should be, but it has always worked for me. Yes, I have been walked on -- but I feel I have gotten much more out of my relationships than I have lost to naivete. Do not dwell on these bad feelings, but rather be proud of the way you have handled your affairs. If you must dwell on something, then spend some time considering how your own actions might have enabled (fancy word I learned from friends claiming knowledge of psychology) your former partner's behavior. Consider how it came to be that you and your partner could have entered into a relationship with such disparate goals. Also spend some time thinking about how you can fulfill your need for security outside a primary relationship -- by strengthening familial ties and nurturing friendships -- by inreased involvement in charitable organizations. If you can lessen dependence on a S.O. for security, you will be more able to walk away from unproductive relationships and less likely to rationalize sticking around for more abuse. You will be more free to love an honest love. Good luck to you,* Steve * credit goes to Dr. Ruth *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***
mce@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Mark McEntee%CGL) (11/04/85)
>organizations. If you can lessen dependence on a S.O. for
What is an S.O?