bradr@ingres.ARPA (Brad Rubenstein) (10/30/85)
In article <1750@gatech.CSNET> strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) writes: >For those of us who sign, could you describe them (as you describe >the two signs below) ? This is a bit technical. I am doing this without the Woodward text in front of me, so there might be slight variances. Trying to describe signs this way is like trying to tell someone how to tie their shoelaces. Check these out with a Deaf Gay friend to make sure it looks right (and to find out what the connotations of the sign are in your area). GAY: "tug on the ear". A gestural construction which originated (I think) in the Manhattan gay deaf community. It still seems to be an "underground" sign here in San Francisco. GAY: open-8 (as in FEEL) palm down, moving across the top of the head from front to back, or across the eyebrow. I think Woodward said that it was generally accepted. Maybe among straights. In most contexts I've seen it used, it would best be translated as "faggot" or "queen". I've never seen it refering to a gay woman. GAY: open-8 with contact on top of wrist, touch twice. I've never seen this sign before, and I remember Woodward saying it is rare. GAY-QUEER: G handshape on tip of chin. The point of contact is (unusually) both index and thumb. This makes it look different from SOUR or MISS ("to miss someone"). The gloss is Woodwards, and he reports it as derogatory, and some of you had mentioned it as such on the East Coast. I don't think it is among the gay community in SF. LESBIAN: L handshape on chin. The point of contact is (unusually) the palm-side of the bend between index and thumb. This makes it look different from LUNCH. G-A-Y: the fingerspelled version is the most likely to be understood, (I guess if your not in a hurry you could spell H-O-M-O-S-E-X-U-A-L) and apparently the least likely to offend, since you could have spelled faggot or c*cksucker if that's what you meant. Incidentally, this cannot apparently have the double meaning gay/happy, since this would surely be signed, not spelled. The above gets all sorts of disclaimers. Use the mis-information at your own risk. Brad -- Brad Rubenstein Project INGRES/BARTOK Computer Science Division ARPA: bradr@ucbingres.ARPA University of California UUCP: ucbvax!ucbingres!bradr Berkeley, CA 94720 PaBell: (415) 642-8149
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (10/31/85)
Are there any derogatory signs for heterosexual or nongay, like "breeder"?
rjd@faron.UUCP (Robert DeBenedictis) (11/01/85)
> Are there any derogatory signs for heterosexual or nongay, like "breeder"?
My favorite is "Het", said with a slight sneer.
However, I never use it. It's in our interest to
encourage friendly relations. There are more of
them, and they're everywhere, and you might as well
learn how to get along with them. My parents are
straight, and they're pretty good people. I wouldn't
like it if someone called them hets or if they called
me a fag. They won't though. In fact, Mom was just
asking me, the other day, if the Dire Straits "Money
for Nothing" song is offensive 'cause it uses the word
faggot. She didn't think so 'cause it says "Look at
that faggot, he's a millionair." She thinks millionairs
are more looked up to than faggots are looked down on so,
to her, to call someone a "millionair faggot" comes out
being a jealous compliment. Did I answer the question?
Robert DeBenedictisjcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) (11/01/85)
> > GAY-QUEER: G handshape on tip of chin. The point of contact is > (unusually) both index and thumb. This makes it look different > from SOUR or MISS ("to miss someone"). The gloss is Woodwards, > and he reports it as derogatory, and some of you had mentioned > it as such on the East Coast. I don't think it is among the gay > community in SF. > I asked a friend who works at Gallaudet, the college for the deaf in Washington, about signs for "gay" and he showed me something similar to the above. It's a "g" sign on the tip of the chin that (he says - I wouldn't know) also looks like a "q" (for queer) and a limp wrist. I gather that it is not derogatory. He also says that a noticable number of the student population there is gay or lesbian. -- jcpatilla
mce@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Mark McEntee%CGL) (11/04/85)
What's with this anti-heterosexual kick? "Any derogatory signs, like
'breeder'"?!?
"Well, they hate me, so I wanna hate them." How fucking stupid. What in
the world do you have against heterosexuals? No more reason to hate them
than homosexuals, blacks, women, mutants, etc. Do you want acceptance in
a society or a continual "us vs. them" mentality? Crusading for fair laws
isn't enough...what happens when people don't give a fuck about the laws
anymore?...your house of cards comes tumbling down...
So just hang out and see what happens...maybe the world will become half
homosexual and half heterosexual ... maybe all homosexual... children born
in test tubes [see "The Forever War" by Heller].
I understand since homosexuals have had a rather hard time of it not getting
there teeth bashed in for doing what they want some over-react..."that
woman's not getting in and taking my kitchen/apt over!", "Let's mock
the straights, tourists and there awful blobby wives..." "It's true
Gertie, they've got a horrible gash instead of a thrilling thing" (thanx
to William Burroughs for the last ... incidentally, check out his works.
He has been homosexual all his life but hates people who deliberately
affect 'queer' attitudes ... "acting" homosexual. How the hell does one
act homosexual? Doing so says that homosexuals are not people ... are
different ... want to be different, want to not fit in ... this isn't
coming out right, it's simply deriding affecting a pose just because you
think you should ... sounds like "politically correct", a chilling phrase ...
"Well, you sleep with members of your sex, so you should think this...". I
sleep with whoever I want and I think whatever I want ...
Anyhoo, the whole message is let's stop this differentiation on meaninless
attributes ... sexual orientation, skin color, drug usage...
"Oh, is your friend {gay | a drug user | straight | Republican}?"
"Um, he's a person ... why don't you just talk to him and see what you
think of him? ... ask the trivia later...."
Mark McEnteeecl@mtgzz.UUCP (e.c.leeper) (11/05/85)
> So just hang out and see what happens...maybe the world will become half > homosexual and half heterosexual ... maybe all homosexual... children born > in test tubes [see "The Forever War" by Heller]. No, THE FOREVER WAR was by Joe Haldeman. And (as an aside) the main character, when dropped into a world he isn't used to, turns out to be a bit of a homophobe himself. Evelyn C. Leeper ...ihnp4!mtgzz!ecl
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (11/05/85)
<followup to Mark McEntree> Whatsamatter, thin-skinned? Seriously, Mark, have you been reading the Signs For "Gay" mail at all? Derogatory signs for "gay" have been at times minutely discussed. So what do you find so infuriating about asking for derogatory signs for "heterosexual"? Don't you think you're protecting a double standard? Raise breeders for food, Love & kisses, Ron Rizzo
bradr@ingres.ARPA (Brad Rubenstein) (11/07/85)
In article <586@osiris.UUCP> jcp@osiris.UUCP (Jody Patilla) writes: >[...] > I asked a friend who works at Gallaudet, the college for the >deaf in Washington, about signs for "gay" and he showed me something >similar to the above. It's a "g" sign on the tip of the chin that (he >says - I wouldn't know) also looks like a "q" (for queer) and a limp >wrist. [...] Now that's interesting. For those that don't catch the reference, the handshapes for "g" and "q" are the same in the fingerspelling alphabet (they differ in the orientation of the hand), and a common way in which signs evolve is by alteration of the old handshape to the letter of the english-language word corresponding to the new sign. For example, a common sign for COMPUTER is the same as the sign for THINK, except that fingers form a "C" handshape. What strikes me is that I never associated the letter "q", hence QUEER, with the sign mentioned above. I wonder if the person who made that interpretation was gay-identified? I'm thinking that maybe the sign has different connotations to straight and gay signers, because of a coincidence in the correspondence between handshapes and letters (I mean, the "g" GAY/"q" QUEER confusion). Just a hypothesis. Ah, natural language. This could never have happened in LISP. Brad -- Brad Rubenstein Project INGRES/BARTOK Computer Science Division ARPA: bradr@ingres.berkeley.edu University of California UUCP: ...ucbvax!ucbingres!bradr Berkeley, CA 94720 PaBell: (415) 642-8149
csdf@mit-vax.UUCP (Charles Forsythe) (11/08/85)
In article <1373@mtgzz.UUCP> ecl@mtgzz.UUCP (e.c.leeper) writes: >No, THE FOREVER WAR was by Joe Haldeman. And (as an aside) the main character >when dropped into a world he isn't used to, turns out to be a bit of a >homophobe himself. Heldeman seems to be a bit of a homophobe himself. When asked about his handling of homosexuals in "Forever War", he responded (in a tounge-in-cheek offended tone),"I've never handled a homosexual in my life!" This was followed by the standard, "I've got nothing against homosexuals or anything" line. I don't know, he seems a bit conservative to me. -- -Charles