wild@sun.uucp (Will Doherty) (11/20/85)
This is a response to the following question (I don't know which digest it came from, so I'm posting to all original recipients for this important clarification): From: Jamie Andrews <ihnp4!alberta!ubc-vision!ubc-cs!andrews> Message-Id: <8511191900.AA26676@ubc-cs.UUCP> Will, further to your AIDS article, Considering the amount of semen that "leaks out" before climax, is it really true to say that fellatio without taking ejaculate is possibly safe? I trust your information, but I'd like to know why this point doesn't matter. Also, what is your information on cunnilingus? I don't think you mentioned it in your article. Thanks for a reasoned posting. The "semen that `leaks out' before climax" is an emission from the Cowper's gland. Noone really knows right now if this emission can transmit HTLVIII virus, so it is best to avoid exposing any mucuous membranes to it. In other words, if you engage in the POSSIBLY SAFE activity of fellatio (cock-sucking), you decrease risk by avoiding any emissions from the penis, including "pre-cum." Lick *around* the "head" of the penis, down its length, and down by the balls (scrotum), rather than putting it all in your mouth. To further decrease risk, gargle with a lubricant that contains nonoxynol-9 (try a few to see which tastes best), or use a diluted hydrogen peroxide solution (say 1 part of 3% hydrogen peroxide : 3-5 parts water -- but don't let it sit around for more than a few hours). Most detergents kill the HTLVIII virus, especially in combination with hot water. Even safer, of course, is to develop a liking for condoms, and licking the condom, rather than the penis directly. As far as cunnilingus, that appeared in the original information as another POSSIBLY SAFE activity (oral-vaginal sex with spermicide, i.e. nonoxynol-9 or equivalent). Thanx for a good question, Will Doherty sun!oscar!wild
sdyer@bbncc5.UUCP (Steve Dyer) (11/22/85)
I think the advise to rely on agents containing nonoxynol-9 or, of all
things, peroxide, is simply illadvised, bad folk-medicine, something we
certainly don't need right now when it comes to AIDS. There are lots of
agents which inactivate viruses in vitro, but which turn out to be ineffective
or deleterious when used in vivo. I am repeating myself here (I addressed this
several months ago) but Will's recommendations require this:
There is no evidence that nonoxynol-9 spermicides or lubricants have any
effect on the spread of HTLV-3 infection. Ditto for peroxide. Nonoxynol-9
is a detergent, and for all we know, it might facilitate its spread through
some strange surface-active effect on mucous membranes. Peroxide is
immediately broken down by catalase, ubiquitous in the body, and it's a
weak antiseptic agent by any standards. The point is, we just don't know
the effects of these (or any other) agents as prophylactic measures against
infection, and it is downright irresponsible to give the impression that
there is anything but uneducated guessing behind it. Better to not be
exposed at all, by the use of condoms, TRUE safe-sex practices where there
is no chance of exchanging fluids, or abstinence.
--
/Steve Dyer
{harvard,seismo}!bbnccv!bbncc5!sdyer
sdyer@bbncc5.ARPAvanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) (11/25/85)
RE: going celibate and/or wearing condoms I quit smokin but I'll be damned if I'll quit exchangin fluids! Marnix
randy@ranhome.UUCP (Randys Account) (11/28/85)
> RE: going celibate and/or wearing condoms > > I quit smokin but I'll be damned if I'll quit exchangin fluids! > > Marnix And quite possibly dead (from AIDS) also.......
joe@emacs.UUCP (Joe Chapman) (12/01/85)
<> >> I quit smokin but I'll be damned if I'll quit exchangin fluids! >> >> Marnix > > And quite possibly dead (from AIDS) also....... Possibly, but nearly every pleasure involves some sort of risk. Everyone who eats raw oysters runs some risk of being poisoned, and everyone who likes driving at 100 on the Mass Pike runs some risk of crashing. Lest I be criticized for ignoring the social implications of disease, societies make these decisions as well, and people die as a result. I don't think it's irresponsible, either from a personal or a societal point of view, to review the risks involved---with the help of lists such as the one recently posted to this newsgroup, the one that caused all of the fuss---and decide that certain acts which could conceivably lead to disease and death are worth some risk. A rich, sweet, wet kiss is the primary symbol of human romance, and I'll be damned if I give it up. Who cares about sex, even plants do that (:-)). -- Joe Chapman "...and if you die, you've lost an decvax!cca!emacs!joe important part of your life." joe@cca-unix.arpa -- Brooke Shields
vanam@pttesac.UUCP (Marnix van Ammers) (12/03/85)
In article <317@ranhome.UUCP> randy@ranhome.UUCP (Randys Account) writes: >> RE: going celibate and/or wearing condoms >> >> I quit smokin but I'll be damned if I'll quit exchangin fluids! >> >> Marnix > >And quite possibly dead (from AIDS) also....... The chances of my deading (from AIDS) are slim.
mazlack@ernie.BERKELEY.EDU (Lawrence J. &) (12/04/85)
>>> RE: going celibate and/or wearing condoms >>> >>> I quit smokin but I'll be damned if I'll quit exchangin fluids! >>> >>> Marnix >> >>And quite possibly dead (from AIDS) also....... > >The chances of my deading (from AIDS) are slim. Only if you practice celibacy or have a single partner who only lusts after you. It turns out that we are just getting started with AIDS. It has been a problem a little longer in Africa - there, heterosexuals have the same relative disease rate as homosexuals. ...Larry