feldman@tle.DEC (Gary Feldman) (01/06/86)
Back in my more carefree days, the mechanics of cruising were easy (even if the success rate was less than spectacular). We'd meet, dance, go home and screw, etc. If I slept with the same guy more than once within a short time span, then I'd feel justified in at least entertaining thoughts of romance (not that I was ever into these whirlwind affairs that seem so common). I also wouldn't chase after someone who was clearly just sleeping around, since my assumption would be that he's just interested in sex and not in romance. (Nothing wrong with that, just not what I wanted.) Now, however, the tables are turned, the rules have changed (at least mine have, for a variety of reasons), and I'm following a more traditional (dare I say heterosexual) approach to dating. Unfortunately, I never bothered to learn how to date back when I was in school. First, I wonder how gay men react to dating someone who is also dating others. Currently, I'm a little reluctant to give totally honest excuses such as "I can't go with you Friday because I already have another date". I guess I'm not quite used to the idea of "dating many, sleeping with none", and I'm afraid that my friends will share this confusion and turn it into distrust or dismissal. Second, how does one turn a platonic friendship into a romantic relationship? Or perhaps a better question is how long should it take? I'm so used to sex first that part of me is very impatient, while the more rational parts of me are torn between the risks of moving too quickly and the risks of moving too slowly. I apologize for making this so personal, but it seemed the best way to provide context. I hope this will turn into a general discussion of dating and changing social practices of gay men, and not into a session of amateur psychoanalysis. Gary Generic disclaimer: These opinions are my own, and I certainly hope my employer has neither an interest nor an opinion on my private life. --------- Nashua, NH: Where the men are a lot more interesting than they were where I used to live.
peterson@tle.DEC (Bob Peterson at Spitbrook DTN 381-2106) (01/08/86)
This was longer than I wanted it, but it's been carefully whittled to be as economical as possible. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The tables have turned for me as well. Threat of disease has always been present, so I consider it merely as adding force, not as having made me turn. Since this has been a gradual experience yet only a recent decision (to restructure "dating" style) I also don't know what to do. But I can theorize and invent a few things. Whether I can find anyone to play along is one judgement criterion to apply to any "style" of romancing and eventually (for me) settling down with one guy. I guess what I've considered is as follows. Have mercy when critiquing me please. Being gay is exciting in that I can freely experiment. It's also stressing in that I *have* to freely experiment. My shrink says I try to structure things too much - can you tell :-) Summary: Dating - one or more people, friends or "strangers", open, nonsexual. Steady - one person, sexual, no dating, live apart (well, weekends and such deserve a bit of sharing living quarters!) Partners - "Married". Whatever this may mean to the people involved. Financial sharing, living quarters usually shared. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Friends - we always have friends, personal and shared with partners. TIME +---------+ | | friends | V | as +-----------+ | usual > dating | | > 1 or more +--------+ | > > Going | | +-----------+ Steady +-------------+ | | | > | | | +--------+ | | | | Partnership | | | +-------------+ | | | | | | +---------+ -------------------------DISCLAIMER: "gay" vs "Gay"-------------------------- I admit much of this may seem based on traditional het styles. I did not set out to mimic. I am not ashamed to be "straight" in some ways. It's a topic for another note, but the Gay fad for being snooty about all that is heterosexually traditional bugs the h*ll out of me. Being "Gay" is a style as being "straight acting" is a style. Being gay sexually doesn't mean I have to be Gay in my choice of food, entertainment, cars, sports, or political opinions. Or my style of dating. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- With all this ado said and done, comments are invited. I hope having a solid model to work from is useful. I've answered one of the original question but failed to shed light on how one starts dating a friend. Except that it is perhaps a natural process of seeing someone regularly; it also requires being un-male-like honest about growing feelings. \bob usenet: decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxwrk!peterson /\ arpa: peterson%vaxwrk.DEC@decwrl.ARPA --------------------------------------------------------------------- Nashua NH: I don't live there but it's beginning to sound intriguing.
cycy@isl1.ri.cmu.edu (Christopher Young) (01/09/86)
I'm writing this in response to the question of gay dating. Personally, I've dated men (until I met my mate) and feel it is the best and most logical way to proceed in a relationship that might take a romantic direction. I really never got a bad reaction from anybody, but I think Sacramento is more oriented to that type of thing than larger, more highly populated areas (I just moved to Pittsburgh; I'm not from here). In answer to the first question, I don't think anybody should have to apologise if they wish to date. For that matter, why should anybody apologise for how he (or she) runs his social life as long as he doesn't hurt anybody else? Especially if the constraints are upon oneself. I found a lot of people used to make me feel guilty about not going to bed with them. Then I realised, what the hell should I feel guilty about that for? They don't need me for that, and I have no obligation to them in that regard. So I did what I thought was right, and if they didn't like it, tough. That was their problem, not mine. But those who were truely my friends remained so. And it's only silly if you choose it to be so. As far as when an intimate relationship should begin, I would say it depends upon the two individuals involved, and what your goals are. There is nothing wrong with discussing the issue; it can save a whole lot of confusion. Discuss your feelings, how you feel about each other. Nothing is 100% certain, after all. When you both feel the time is really right (based on more than horneyness) then it undoubtedly will be. I'm glad this was brought up. For a while, I thought I was the only one who thought dating was a good idea. I used to hear all this junk about how only heterosexuals date and we can't/shouldn't do what they do. I think that's bull. Besides, the attitude that "just because they do it, it's wrong" doesn't hold water. It's like them saying something similar about us. I'm curious About what other people think. Chris.
rob@ptsfb.UUCP (Rob Bernardo) (01/09/86)
In article <267@decwrl.DEC.COM> feldman@tle.DEC (Gary Feldman) writes: > >Back in my more carefree days, the mechanics of cruising were easy (even if the >success rate was less than spectacular). We'd meet, dance, go home and screw, >etc. >Now, however, the tables are turned, the rules have changed (at least mine have, >for a variety of reasons), and I'm following a more traditional (dare I say >heterosexual) approach to dating. Unfortunately, I never bothered to learn how >to date back when I was in school. > >First, I wonder how gay men react to dating someone who is also dating others. >Currently, I'm a little reluctant to give totally honest excuses such as "I >can't go with you Friday because I already have another date". I guess I'm not >quite used to the idea of "dating many, sleeping with none", and I'm afraid that >my friends will share this confusion and turn it into distrust or dismissal. What about a simple, "Sorry, I have plans for Friday, how about Saturday?" Or even "Sorry, I am getting together with a friend Friday, how about Saturday?" [BTW, I thinks it's crucially important to offer an alternative lest the other person think you are indirectly saying "no".] The other person may conclude that you MIGHT be dating someone else, but so what - you're not near being "steady" yet. > >Second, how does one turn a platonic friendship into a romantic relationship? >Or perhaps a better question is how long should it take? I'm so used to >sex first that part of me is very impatient, while the more rational parts of me >are torn between the risks of moving too quickly and the risks of moving too >slowly. > I think the use of "platonic friendship" might mislead us from the issue. Are we talking about becoming sexual with good friends, or are we talking about when to first have sex with a new romantic interest? I think you meant the latter. My advice is that you have to learn from experience what is right for you. I know that for myself, there has to be a physical attraction from the start as well as a non-physical interest in the person. If there is insufficient non-physical interest, nothing will develop after we have sex, and after the sex is no longer "mysterious" with him, my interest in seeing him will decrease rapidly. If there is insufficient physical attraction, I will quickly become disinterested in the sex, and the relationship with end unless he is interesting enough non-physically to be a "platonic" friend. The only point at which TIMING of the first sex is important is that there is enough interaction beforehand that I get to know if/how he is non-physically interesting to me. This is important because this interest is necessary for me to sustain romantic feelings just in case the sex winds up just so-so. I know that since the onset of the AIDS epidemic, I have been more interested in "dating" with the goal of "settling down" with someone. However, speaking health-wise, sex in the context of a "relationship" is no safer than "recreational" sex unless the two of you have had sex with no one else in the past five or so years.