tim@unisoft.UUCP (Tim Bessie) (01/09/86)
In article <467@hounx.UUCP> kort@hounx.UUCP (B.KORT) writes: >Depression is a curious state, that frequently baffles and >vexes the friends of the depressed person. One thesis is >that the depressed person has lost touch with reality. ... >Imagine how Gallileo felt, or Spinoza, >or Alan Turing, when, at the time they were active, their >community failed to appreciate their work, rejected it, >rejected them. I suspect they had bouts of depression. >Turing committed suicide. Here we are thirty years later, >and a tiny fraction of society are able to appreciate >Turing's work. I'd always heard that Turing committed suicide because he was a homosexual, and couldn't bear living that way (living, as he did, at a time and place when it was considered a crime). --- Life is like an onion; you keep peeling off the layers, and sometimes you weep. - Carl Sandburg --------------------------------------------------------------- ---> Tim Bessie ----- {ucbvax,dual}!unisoft!tim ---> Unisoft Systems; 739 Allston Way; Berkeley, CA 94710 ---> (415) 644-1230 TWX II 910 366-2145 -- --- Life is like an onion; you keep peeling off the layers, and sometimes you weep. - Carl Sandburg --------------------------------------------------------------- ---> Tim Bessie ----- {ucbvax,dual}!unisoft!tim ---> Unisoft Systems; 739 Allston Way; Berkeley, CA 94710 ---> (415) 644-1230 TWX II 910 366-2145
rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) (01/10/86)
Turing killed himself as a result of depression after being given the "3rd degree" (criminal conviction and hormone treatments) for being openly gay. His downfall came not from any self-hatred or lack of awareness about his sexuality (on the contrary, he seems remarkably free of these for his time; see Andrew Hodges' excellent biography, ALAN TURING: THE ENIGMA), but from naivete about British homophobia. A friend of one of Turing's pickups broke in and robbed his apartment. Turing immediately reported the crime to the police, answered all their questions with candor, and bluntly stated (apparently expecting the cops would appreciate his forthrightness) that of course he way gay. Hearing that, the police arrested HIM, brought him to trial on some antisex law, convicted him, sentenced him to prison, but lifted incarceration if he would submit to injections of hormones. This medieval episode took place as recently as the early 1950s, a mere decade or so before the Wolfenden Report. You probably weren't aware of the details, but to say Turing killed himself because he couldn't deal with his homosexuality not only lets the culprits (the British authorities) off the hook, but lets them have the last word via a very ironic slander. Despite popular images of the English as epicene and historically addicted to homosexuality, the UK has been perhaps the most homophobic nation in Europe for many centuries. Louis Crompton's BYRON AND GREEK LOVE, a study of homophobia in early 19th century England, graphically describes just how harsh and paranoid the English were on the issue even amidst a period of political reforms and decrminalization on the continent. Cheers, Ron Rizzo
kort@hounx.UUCP (B.KORT) (01/13/86)
Thanks to Ron Rizzo for that chilling tale of repression regarding Alan Turing. He didn't commit suicide, he was crucified. Did they ever bring the authorities to trial? --Barry Kort
tim@unisoft.UUCP (Tim Bessie) (01/15/86)
In article <1666@bbncca.ARPA> rrizzo@bbncca.ARPA (Ron Rizzo) writes: >Turing killed himself as a result of depression after being given the "3rd >degree" (criminal conviction and hormone treatments) for being openly gay. ... >You probably weren't aware of the details, but to say Turing killed >himself because he couldn't deal with his homosexuality not only lets >the culprits (the British authorities) off the hook, but lets them have >the last word via a very ironic slander. I appreciate your admitting that I might not have had the facts. I get the feeling, though, that you are upset with me for being ignorant here. Is this true? - Tim
laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) (01/16/86)
In article <5@unisoft.UUCP> tim@unisoft.UUCP (Tim Bessie) writes: >I appreciate your admitting that I might not have had the facts. I >get the feeling, though, that you are upset with me for being ignorant >here. Is this true? > > - Tim Ah, far be it from me to assume what someone else meant, but it is quite possible to be very upset that there is ignorance without blaming the ignorant people for their ignorance. -- Laura Creighton sun!hoptoad!laura (note new address! l5 will still ihnp4!hoptoad!laura work for a while....) hoptoad!laura@lll-crg.arpa
gmk@uicsl.UUCP (01/17/86)
/* Written 12:47 pm Jan 9, 1986 by tim@unisoft.UUCP in uicsl:net.motss */ /* ---------- "Re: responsibility, sensitivity, (a" ---------- */ > I'd always heard that Turing committed suicide because he was > a homosexual, and couldn't bear living that way (living, as he > did, at a time and place when it was considered a crime). Not quite. Turing was persecuted during the McCarthy era for his homosexuality (security risk, etc.). The government tried to ``turn him around'' with hormone injections and it was the depression resulting from these treatments that led to his suicide. Recommended: "Alan Turing: the Enigma" by Andrew Hodges - Gary
midkiff@uiucdcsb.CS.UIUC.EDU (01/17/86)
/* Written 10:42 pm Jan 16, 1986 by gmk@uicsl.UUCP in uiucdcsb:net.motss */
/* ---------- "Re: responsibility, sensitivity, (a" ---------- */
Not quite. Turing was persecuted during the McCarthy era for
his homosexuality (security risk, etc.). The government tried to
``turn him around'' with hormone injections ...
/* End of text from uiucdcsb:net.motss */
What does the former US Senator from Wisconsin have to do with this?
Turing died in 1953 in England, as a citizen of England. McCarthy
began his rabid anti-communism in 1952, and was effectively stopped
with his censure by the US Senate in 1954. His targets were the US State
Department and the US Army, and not the faculties of english universities.
If the 'government' did try to "turn him around", it was the Queen's
government, not the US government. I have never heard or seen any evidence
that McCarthy either held a cabinet or parliamentary position in the government
of England.
This is not a defense of either McCarthy or his tactics. I just can't
see any purpose in blaming X for the actions of Y. Follow-ups to
this should probably be in net.politics, not net.motss (although the
fact that McCarthy's chief council was thought to be homosexual by many,
and was shameless persecuted by the liberal press, might qualify it for
inclusion here. :-) .)
Sam Midkiff
{ihnp4 | pur-ee}|uiucdcs!midkiffcda@violet.berkeley.edu (Charlotte Allen) (01/21/86)
>I'd always heard that Turing committed suicide because he was >a homosexual, and couldn't bear living that way (living, as he >did, at a time and place when it was considered a crime). > Funny, I thought he was murdered by the OSS.....