[net.motss] Generalizations about Gay Men.

fisher@dssdev.DEC (Gerry Fisher --- Terminally Inane) (02/06/86)

In response to Chris' and Keith's postings about the gay community:
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I started to reply to Keith's posting by answering him line for line,
but my overall point was being lost in the line-by-line debate.  My
point is the following:  I am sick and tired of people stating grandly
on one hand that one must not generalize, and then on the other hand
blasting gay men in the community for being shallow, petty, full of
gossip, catty, et. al.  This type of argument is contradictory,
hypocritical, and divisive. 

Yes, I have seen the cattiness in certain circles.  Yes, I am aware of
the gossip in certain circles.  Yes, I am aware that some gay men have
problems setting goals and thinking about the future.  Yes, I am aware
that some gay men have difficulties having stable relationships (not 
exactly a unique problem considering the current divorce statistics). 
***Yes, I am aware that gay men like this might compose the majority in 
certain gay circles.***

However, to say that these are the traits of the "gay male community"
is rubbish.  If you believe otherwise, I claim that you are not being
perceptive enough, that you are only seeing what frightens you the
most, what makes you most insecure about your own masculinity, and
what rattles your own conception of what "men" or "gay men" should be.

On the one hand, you say "don't generalize."  On the other hand, you
complain about gay men's "fish handshakes," and you "point into the
mirror" to warn us about gossipy queens (do you gossip?  should you 
really have been pointing into a mirror?).  You admire men who avoid the
gay community even when the association "would clearly be beneficial to the
individual,"  but then you claim to admire lesbians because they are
*more* active (politically) in the gay community (again, another
generalization).  

If you *really* don't approve of generalizations, stop using them to
"prove" your points. 

<END_OF_FLAME>
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Let me relate two quick stories to prove my point.


I play for a gay men's basketball team in Boston, Massachusetts.  All 
in all, I enjoy their company more than any gay "group" I have ever 
encountered (in the bars, in the Boston Alliance of Gay and Lesbian 
Youth, in a gay health club to which I belong, and in the AIDS Action 
Committee).  

For instance, one of my old boyfriends didn't know who Larry Bird was
(player for the Boston Celtics professional basketball
team).  Unlike my old boyfriend, I could really *talk* with these
guys!  Finally, I had found a whole group of gay men who liked sports.

However, I sensed that although these guys were easy going about 
traditionally masculine behavior, they were *very* uptight about 
anything that could be linked to being "gay."  Since I have a limited 
reserve of "Butch-ness," this troubled me.

For instance, the first time I came to the gym to play ball with the
guys, I asked if this was the gay basketball group. They all looked at
me nervously; after all, I had said the forbidden "G" word.  Time in and
time out, they made it clear that they were (read: "wanted to be") just
a bunch of "guys" playing basketball.  During one game, a friend
of mine said, "he's such a lady; there's more Clinique on that
body than is stocked in Filene's department store."  This line would
have been funny if it weren't accompanied by a vicious "I'm above all
that" sneer. 

I get the feeling that these guys would never watch Dynasty, wear
Clinique products, shop in certain stores, listen to Disco music, or
wear 501 jeans because that is "gay" behavior.  In my opinion, if you
don't like a product, don't use it; if you don't like a product
because you are worried about what other people think, you are
foolish. 

Story number 2:  

I just finished working out at my health club and I decided to go to 
the Boston Ramrod (gay bar) for a drink (a really healthy thing to do, 
huh?).  When I walked into the bar, I noticed the usual assortment of 
folks (yes, the catty, gossipy people included; after all, they are 
the most noticeable).  

One guy stood out of the crowd.  He was dressed in jeans, leather 
chaps, a ringed harness, and a leather hat.  I thought he looked 
ridiculous!  So, as I drank my beer, I imagined all sorts of sordid 
details about this guy in order to pass the time and to amuse myself.  
After all, I wouldn't be caught *dead* in an outfit like that (except 
on Halloween---ahem).

To my surprise (I *attract* men like that?), the man approached me and
we began to talk.  He explained that he had read that Thursday nights
were "leather and denim" nights at the Ramrod, and that he thought that
he would be out of place if he *didn't* dress that way.  He explained
that he worked in Boston's financial district, lived in the 
area, and so forth.  We had an incredibly enjoyable talk.  Not once
did he come-on to me ("you know how promiscuous those leathermen
are"), and as a matter of fact, he expressed his joy that he found
someone with which to pass the time of day. We shook hands (firmly I
might add) and parted friends. 

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It amazes me the number of people who turn to me to tell me that the
bars are only filled with nasty, gossipy queens.  I wonder if those
people are including themselves in that group; after all, I see them
in the bars, too.  It kind of reminds me of Boston's local cruising
park (where men meet anonymously to have sex); nobody has ever been
there, but they can all give eye-witness accounts of what goes on in
the bushes. 

***You can't generalize***  Under close inspection, generalizations
never describe real people.  We are too complex to fit into rigid 
stereotypes.  If you choose to avoid the gay community, then you are 
missing the opportunity to enjoy a wide variety of people.  

The next time you go into a "gay" event, really try to notice the
types of people who surround you.  Especially, take time to notice the
quiet ones.  Appreciate the variety in our community and add your own
personality to the melting pot.  You and your local gay community will
be richer because of it.  Don't discredit the notion of community just 
because you differ from some gay people.  We need to appreciate our 
differences as much as those traits we have in common.

What do others think about this issue?

			Gerry Fisher
                        ...decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-dssdev!fisher
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Nashua, NH: Where the men are men, and the sheep are nervous.