boroff@bagels.DEC (E. Boroff, NCSS DECnet/PSI) (02/18/86)
"I sincerly believe that as homosexuality is more accepted, and
the traditional sterotypes melt away, so will the effeminate gay men."
What a stupid, bigoted and thoughtless comment this is! Who the hell
cares whether or not you can tolerate effeminate men. And what gives you
the right to decree what is and is not acceptable gay behavior!
"Unfortunatly, it's the straight acting homosexual who is never counted -
the news programs miss him, he finds a lover, and vanishes somewhere in
the suburbs."
Where are you comming up with these concepts?!? It's the homophobic gay
male wrapped up in all his quazi-weird-butchness that I pitty the most.
This type of person has more mental problems and hangups than anyone
(including Dr. Ruth) could ever possibly iron out. And thats taken from
experiance sister, not from some magazine!
Ok, ok, I can understand the point your trying to get across. But face it; the
world was not created and molded for the complete personal enjoyment of Andrew
Gerber. You need to expand your limited field of vision and learn how to enjoy
the many diverse and wonderful people around you (gay as well as straight).
eric.
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usenet: decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-bagels!boroff
arpa: boroff%bagels.DEC@decwrl.ARPAgerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (Andrew S. Gerber) (02/18/86)
In article <1193@decwrl.DEC.COM>, boroff@bagels.DEC (E. Boroff, NCSS DECnet/PSI) writes: > > > "I sincerly believe that as homosexuality is more accepted, and > the traditional sterotypes melt away, so will the effeminate gay men." > > What a stupid, bigoted and thoughtless comment this is! Who the hell > cares whether or not you can tolerate effeminate men. And what gives you > the right to decree what is and is not acceptable gay behavior! > When did I say that I could or could not tolerate effeminate gay man? Where did I try to decree what was acceptable? I WAS MAKING A STATEMENT ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE GAY MALE COMMUNITY! That's ALL! > "Unfortunatly, it's the straight acting homosexual who is never counted - > the news programs miss him, he finds a lover, and vanishes somewhere in > the suburbs." > > Where are you comming up with these concepts?!? It's the homophobic gay > male wrapped up in all his quazi-weird-butchness that I pitty the most. > This type of person has more mental problems and hangups than anyone > (including Dr. Ruth) could ever possibly iron out. And thats taken from > experiance sister, not from some magazine! > I'm not coming up with any wierd concepts. It's just too bad that when CBS news reports on "gay men", they show two clones in SF walking down a street, wearing leather jackets and holding hands. It's about time that the rest of the USA realizes that there are gay men (and women) EVERYWHERE, and not just in the ``gay ghettos'' that the media shows us. BEFORE someone screams, I have NOTHING against those two guys in SF. What's important is that the gay community is diverse, in more than one direction. A good friend of mine has been working for IBM in New York State. He's afraid to ever come out to the people he works with there, and he doesn't care so much about his friends in Boston. Why is this? In Boston, people have a more even view of homosexuality. They understand that just 'cause you're gay doesn't make you better, worse, funnier, sadder, fatter, thinner, more perverted, less perverted, etc than anyone else. Up in the sticks where he works, though, gay is identified with AIDS, bathhouses, perversion, child molestation, and the like. I know that the picture that I'm painting is black and white, and the real situation is much grayer. Good 'ole Dapper O'Neil, probably the most homophobic politician that the Boston City Council has ever seen, regularly insults the sexual preferences of David Scondras, another City Council member. There are plenty of good people at IBM who know the real story, and wouldn't harass anyone. I havn't done this much flaming since I was responding to Arndt's articles more than a year ago. Look, we're all friends here. Or at least I hope we are. In none of my past postings have I sad ANYTHING against gay men who prefer to act in a certain way. I have just been making a call to notice the rest of us. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrew S. Gerber MIT '87 Visible Language Workshop | | gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU, gerber@mit-mc.lcs.mit.edu, gerber@athena.mit.edu | | UUCP: decvax!mit-eddie!mit-amt!gerber decvax!mit-eddie!mit-athena!gerber | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter) (02/19/86)
In article <1193@decwrl.DEC.COM> boroff@bagels.DEC (E. Boroff, NCSS DECnet/PSI) writes: > > "I sincerly believe that as homosexuality is more accepted, and > the traditional sterotypes melt away, so will the effeminate gay men." > > What a stupid, bigoted and thoughtless comment this is! Who the hell > cares whether or not you can tolerate effeminate men. And what gives you > the right to decree what is and is not acceptable gay behavior! Mr. Boroff is finding fault where none exists. He correctly quotes Andrew Gerber and then imputes a value judgement to Mr. Gerber's statement where no such judge- ment exists. Mr. Boroff's emotional outburst contains the only value judgement. Mr. Gerber's statement was an opinion and was not claimed to be factual. His statement contained no inkling of his alleged lack of toleration towards effeminate gay men. Nor did it imply any presumed right to judge "acceptable" behavior. Mr. Boroff's inferences are unsupported. This writer will now make a value judgement: Mr. Boroff should apologize to Mr. Gerber. Mr. Boroff does not attack Mr. Gerber's argument; instead he attacks Mr. Gerber! This is unacceptable in civilized discussion.
gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (Andrew S. Gerber) (02/21/86)
In article <147@daisy.UUCP> david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter) writes: > >This writer will now make a value judgement: Mr. Boroff should apologize to > Mr. Gerber. Mr. Boroff does not attack Mr. Gerber's argument; instead he > attacks Mr. Gerber! This is unacceptable in civilized discussion. For anyone who cares, we've already "buried the hatched", as it were. I think this whole discussion brings up a few major points, one which I'd love to hear other's opinions on.. 1.) Do you have to be "gay" to be a homosexual? 2.) If you're a homosexual, do you have to act a certain way to be accepted by other homosexuals? By the straight society? 3.) If you are a homosexual, and wish to act in one particular way, does this isolate you from the straights? From the gays? _or_ 4.) Is this whole thing worthless? (-: :-) -andy -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrew S. Gerber MIT '87 Visible Language Workshop | | gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU, gerber@mit-mc.lcs.mit.edu, gerber@athena.mit.edu | | UUCP: decvax!mit-eddie!mit-amt!gerber decvax!mit-eddie!mit-athena!gerber | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+