kolstad@convex.UUCP (08/14/84)
#R:ucla-cs:-57500:convex:50300002:000:1565 convex!kolstad Aug 14 10:25:00 1984 This discussion seems predicated on the idea that "news systems must look like mail systems". Just as 1-2-3 and other spreadsheet programs use a more integrated approach to solving a specific problem, so does "notesfiles", the news interface available from U. Illinois. Over 120 sites now run notesfiles, including a large subnetwork spanning central Illinois and Texas. The interface is largely a single-keystroke screen oriented system. A sequencer takes you to notesfiles (newsgroups) and notes (news items) which have not yet been read. The response mechanism groups responses and replies to questions in a linear string of notes along with the original question. The system is fast and can be taught to secretaries (who know an editor or who can use a "trivial editor") very quickly. There are none of the "line eater" or other kinds of more subtle bugs. The system relies on your mail system to deliver mail to remote sites (instead of saving the bizarre pathnames). I supply a simple front end and database of sites (soon to be updated yet again, *sigh*). If you'd like to try the notesfile system (it's quite compatible with the scheme used by USENET to transmit data between sites), contact Ray Essick at the University of Illinois (ihnp4!uiucdcs!essick) or call him at 217-333-7937. Transfers of notesfile data on a notesfile subnetwork seem to go more quickly than those of news; notesfiles stores less impertinent information about a note in a compressed database and hence uses less storage. Check it out -- you might find that you like it.
henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (08/16/84)
> There are none of the "line eater" or other kinds of more subtle bugs.
Last I heard, there were other entertaining subtle bugs in notesfiles,
and at least one of the authors had been heard to say, in public, that
it badly needed a total rewrite.
I tend to agree that the concept of notesfiles is a better way to go.
I'm concerned that some of the 2.10.n efforts may be reinventing the
wheel in a bass-ackwards way, with the result eventually looking like
a botched notesfiles lookalike.
--
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henrydave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) (08/17/84)
Regarding the recent comments on the merits of notesfiles and readnews:
There *is* an alternative, and it will be generally available
soon. It's Larry Wall (ihnp4!sdcrdcf!lwall)'s "rn" news-reading
program. I'm running a beta-test version, and as far as I'm
concerned it's vastly better than readnews and has all of the
great features that notes users crow about. Specifically:
- you can automatically follow discussions under one "Subject" header;
- you can skip (either during one session or for all your
sessions) any articles matching a given header string;
- you can list all unread articles in a newsgroup, one line each,
and mark them all as read with a single command if you like;
- it's *fast*;
- it uses single keystroke commands in cbreak mode.
That's just a few of the features of this gem. Larry has done an
excellent job of redesigning the user interface, and once it's
in final form I look forward to seeing it widely used on the net.
Dave Sherman
Toronto
--
{allegra,cornell,decvax,ihnp4,linus,utzoo}!utcsrgv!davegreg@sdcsvax.UUCP (08/19/84)
In article <5049@utcsrgv.UUCP> dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) writes
about the "rn" program for reading news. I will second his comments.
It has halved the amount of (wall clock) time that I spend reading the
news; for that reason alone it is worth it. There are a few minor things
I would change (or in some cases, make tailorable), but overall, I am VERY
pleased with the program and I can't recommend it highly enough.
--
-- Greg Noel, NCR Torrey Pines Greg@sdcsvax.UUCP or Greg@nosc.ARPAjwp@sdchema.UUCP (08/20/84)
In article <1143@sdcsvax.UUCP> greg@sdcsvax.UUCP (Greg Noel) writes: >In article <5049@utcsrgv.UUCP> dave@utcsrgv.UUCP (Dave Sherman) writes >[laudably] about the "rn" program for reading news. I will second his >comments. I'll third them. This is a great program and I want to publicly thank Larry Wall for his work, and for his kindness in distributing it. John Pierce, Chemistry, UC San Diego {decvax,sdcsvax}!sdchema!jwp
rees@apollo.UUCP (08/21/84)
[ notesfiles] ... Check it out -- you might find that you like it.
If you are a user, that may be true, but if you are the administrator
of a usenet site you may not be as pleased with it.
Notesfiles sites have been flooding the net for years with articles
that don't adhere to the usenet specs [1]. I'll take Rob's article
as an example. Here is the header as I received it:
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 Apollo 7/31/84; site apollo.uucp
Posting-Version: Notesfiles; site convex.UUCP
Path: apollo!wivax!decvax!genrad!grkermit!masscomp!bonnie!clyde!burl!ulysses!cbosgd!mhuxl!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!convex!kolstad
From: kolstad@convex.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.news.adm
Subject: Re: Interfacing netnews and mail softwar
Message-ID: <50300002@convex.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 14-Aug-84 11:25:00 EDT
Date-Received: Tue, 21-Aug-84 01:19:28 EDT
References: <575@ucla-cs.UUCP>
Lines: 31
Nf-ID: #R:ucla-cs:-57500:convex:50300002:000:1565
Nf-From: convex!kolstad Aug 14 10:25:00 1984
#R:ucla-cs:-57500:convex:50300002:000:1565
convex!kolstad Aug 14 10:25:00 1984
The "Posting-Version" line is wrong. See [1].
Note the "Subject" line. What, exactly, is "softwar"? A new video game?
No, it's all that is left after a notesfile site truncates the subject
to 40 characters. If my news system hadn't stripped it off, there would
also be a " - (nf)" appended to the subject line.
The first two lines of the article are garbage. They belong in the header.
In fact, they do appear in the header too. Why repeat them?
I see that at least the "References" line is right. They are usually
wrong or completely missing in notesfiles articles.
Out of all these people who think notes is great, I know of only one
who has taken the time to make it conform to standards before unleashing
articles on the net. If you want to run notes, you should ask him where
to get the latest version that conforms to standards. He is:
Tw Cook - HP Portable Computer Div, Corvallis OR - hp-pcd!tw
By the way, I think that Ray Essick has done a great job writing notesfiles.
My quibble is with all those people who say it's great but can't be bothered
making it conform.
References:
[1] "Standard for Interchange of USENET Messages", Mark R. Horton
- Jim Reesmsimpson@bbncca.ARPA (Mike Simpson) (08/31/84)
***
31 August 1984.
To follow up on what Dave Sherman said regarding Larry
Wall's RN: I give it 3 and three-quarters stars.
Yes, it's fast. It does (or can be made to do) all the
things you would want 'readnews' to do. I LOVE it. I got a
beta-test version from Larry in early June, and in between
vacations and travel, I have managed to get it running on our
11/70-like BBN C Machine. Some additional casts are required,
however, if the code is running on non-Vaxen machines.
I have recently tried to reach Larry over the network to
report my findings, but mail is getting bounced back from SDCRDCF.
(Larry -- If you're reading this, give me a call at 617-497-2819
sometime during the week of September 10th.) But I'm using RN
now to read netnews (and to post this article), and I don't think
I'll ever go back to 'readnews' again.
-- Mike Simpson
msimpson@bbncca (ARPA)
{decvax,ihnp4,linus,ima,wjh12}!bbncca!msimpson (USENET)
--
-- your obedient servant,
Mike Simpson, BBN
msimpson@bbn-unix (ARPA)
{decvax,ihnp4,ima,linus,wjh12}!bbncca!msimpson (Usenet)
617-497-2819 (Ma Bell)