[net.cog-eng] expert-friendly

chongo@nsc.uucp (Curt Noll) (10/03/83)

i'll take an expert-friendly system, even if i am new to it, any day.
in the long run expert-friendly systems save you time and really pay
off.  stupid menu-verbose-bogus systems may be nice for the first week,
but the initial time you save is lost after consistent usage.

chongo /\../\

decot@cwruecmp.UUCP (Dave Decot) (10/07/83)

How about systems that are "everybody-flexible", like TOPS-20?

It provides menus only on DEMAND (i.e. ?) and provides them INSTANTLY.
It provides syntax reminders on DEMAND (i.e. (GUIDE WORDS)).
It provides command and argument completion (that you may verify, if desired).
Experts can abbreviate up to the borders of ambiguity, and beginners
can be as verbose and forgetful as they like.  It *could* use a history
mechanism, though.
				Dave Decot
				..!decvax!cwruecmp!decot

[This is not intended to start a Burger TOPS/McUNIX debate]

tim@minn-ua.UUCP (Tim Giebelhaus) (10/18/83)

  Menus do not have to be slow.  If it is done badly, then they will be slow.
A menu does not have to show a list of all the commands either.  The part I
like about menus the best is that I only have to press one button to get a
command done.  I refer you again to UCSD Pascal.  The P-code makes some of the
user written programs slow and there are not as many choices as you get on 
very large machines, but I find that I can get most anything done without
much trouble.
  I do, however, agree that long names are a waste of time.  If you have a 
long name, chances are that nobody is going to remember it anyway.

mike@taurus.UUCP (10/20/83)

Oh boy, do I agree. You ever notice on those systems that have legal
full- and abbreviated-command names how many people actually use the full
name? None - of course! They can't be bothered with all that typing.
All this garbage about menus helping people is simply
and excuse to not bother teaching 'em how to use the system in the first place.

Our assistant spent three days typing half our mailing list into a so-called
user friendly menu system. We fixed to accept the addresses like this:

name;+companyname;address;moreaddress;...;=telephonenumber

with semicolon separated fields. Result? She got the rest done in a
SINGLE AFTERNOON!! The moral is - spend ten minutes learning the system, then
use it. If you pile in straight away with a learn-as-you-go system, it's
going to get in your way half an hour later, and keep slowing you down from
then on.

There aren't many systems that can go slow, and help, while you learn,
then get out of the way when you know what you're doing.
How about some of you guys out there designing some systems that do?
-- 

Mike Banahan
{ENGLAND}!ukc!root44!taurus!mike

mike@taurus.UUCP (10/20/83)

Oh boy, do I agree. You ever notice on those systems that have legal
full- and abbreviated-command names how many people actually use the full
name? None - of course! They can't be bothered with all that typing.
All this garbage about menus helping people is simply
and excuse to not bother teaching 'em how to use the system in the first place.

Our assistant spent three days typing half our mailing list into a so-called
user friendly menu system. We fixed to accept the addresses like this:

name;+companyname;address;[moreaddress;]=telephonenumber

with semicolon separated fields. Result? She got the rest done in a
SINGLE AFTERNOON!! The moral is - spend ten minutes learning the system, then
use it. If you pile in straight away with a learn-as-you-go system, it's
going to get in your way half an hour later, and keep slowing you down from
then on.

There aren't many systems that can go slow, and help, while you learn,
then get out of the way when you know what you're doing.
How about some of you guys out there designing some systems that do?

-- 

Mike Banahan
{ENGLAND}!ukc!root44!taurus!mike

henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer) (10/22/83)

Tim Giebelhaus observes:

	"The part I like about menus the best is that I only have to
	press one button to get a command done..."

To quote Mike Lesk:

	"The mark of a menu system is that you only use one finger,
	even if you touch-type."
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry