thanh@rlgvax.UUCP (Thomas T. Ngo) (09/14/83)
Sine this is my last time on the net, I'd like to response/defend for my article posted on the net, tilted "leg/armpit hair must be shaved ...", from Larry Welsch (houxu!welsch) and Prentiss Riddle (ut-sally!riddle). I should reply to each of above senders directly, but I then realize whatever I'm going to say here may interest some other people (!) in knowing what's going on and also to clarify some of my points at the same time. Please forgive me if I didn't post this on other groups such as net.followup/net.social/or whatsoever (and I won't be on the net after today to read your flame mail anyway). By the way a "jungle" is one of the few places where I would shave my hair. Hair serves a very important function, body temperature control. In the hot summer hair provides more surface area for sweat to evaporate and cool my body and in the winter it helps to keep me warm. My beard provides a natural place for my breath to frost on and keep sub-zero temperatures from hitting my face directly. I have never been frost bitten and have frequently skied when it is below zero. Larry Welsch Larry, I give up unconditionally when you said that you would shave if you were in a jungle? Is it the fact to show how abnormal/honest you are on the net (if that's what you were, you should hide it)? I didn't see it funny, and found that it (your statement) only made a fool of yourself (Take this advice: Don't be so upset next time because the more you upsetted, the poorer judgment you made if you have any). You gave me a lesson about the usefulness of your hair and beard without any knowledge about (1) that I didn't say or ever claimed that you or anyone else must shave all of their body hair, and (2) that what happen for all women who didn't have beard to keep them away "frosting their breath, keeping sub-zero temp. from hitting their face, etc. (Doesn't it also mean that women from North of U.S. East coast will all die in the winter because they don't have beard). I hope that you should control your temple next time and try to say something that makes sense and worths with your knowledge or education. Now for some comments on removing hair. Shaving effectively removes the outer layer of skin. For people with a tough skin this may not make much of a difference. But I have sensitive skin. Run a razor across it and it gets red and cuts easily. Shaving is just plain unhealthy for me. Larry Welsch How old are you, Larry? You're not old enough to be careful when you shave yourself? Too bad because it's *only* your own problem. I suggest that you learn how shave by putting some foam on your wet face first or by using an electric razor (hope that you know how to plug it in your outlet). Here's some thing for you to think about: If people don't want to hit someone, does that mean they don't or never will drive a car? If you want to do something, I believe that you can learn how to do it properly. The harder you learn/try, the better you are (the same thing that you had to learn to be a programmer), so instead of trying to find a reason to excuse for *not* doing *it, why don't you just learn how to do *it*. Let's talk about appearance. The following is a quotation: (**) I believe that one's appearance is a very important factor to show yourself, make other people to have nice impression about you before they hire you for a job or offer you their assistance for anything. I hardly hear anyone who says something like: "That dentist has a bad breath and a dandruff hair, so I try him. Who knows he may be a best dentist in the world", or "This applicant here, whose clothes he/she wears for interview haven't washed for a year, is a potential candidate for our marketing management position." If there was such person working at your site or company, I would like to know and thank god that I was not *lucky* enough to work there. - Mine - Yes appearance is important. How a person chooses to wear or style one's hair has nothing to do with washing or dandruff. Quite frankly, I look better in a beard than without one. The beard lengthens my face. I would prefer a woman with hair on her legs to one with nicks and scratches from shaving or a woman with red legs from a depilatory. The point is that projecting the "best" image may not be conforming to some set of standards. Not everyone looks best shaved!! - Yours - (Larry Welsch) Larry, you haven't answered my above examples directly yet (All what I emphasized was about one's appearance at his/her job). Would you like/trust someone whose my description fit him/her well or someone who believes/claims *that* (dirty clothes, dandruff, etc.) is his/her set of standard? Oh, I see. Is it true that you liked to say some women look better with their leg/armpit hair than without it? I don't understand why you always keeps talking about your beard, and it's something that women don't have. Do you suggest that they should grow one? Next, let's talk about work. Frankly personal appearance doesn't have a dam thing to do with work. When I interview someone the only question on my mind is can that person get the job done. I am a programmer. I am not impressed with someone who comes in wearing a three piece suit neatly shaved who doesn't know the difference between recursion and iteration. It doesn't matter how good a person looks, if the person doesn't know the field then she/he cannot sell/develop/manufacture the product. A salesperson doesn't have to dress well, she has to be able to sell. If the job is to work with machine tools, long hair and a long beard might be a consideration. I would ask the person how they kept the hair from being caught and tell them this is may be a problem to be solved. I'd still hire them and then solve the problem. Larry Welsch Well, the above paragragh (**) that you excerpted from my original article was missing its beginning sentence: "I admit that the matter of shaving or unshaving your leg/armpit hair don't affect on you work performance or what inside you, but how can you prove it to me or someone who just know/meet you?" Once again, you intended to ignore and tried to mislead what I *tried* to say here. Ashamed of you. Now, please answer this question: "How can you prove it to me or someone who just know/meet you about, say, your job qualification? Will it be better to hire someone who has a good qualification for his/her job, and also shows you/or anyone else his/her nice appearance? That kind of person, I believe, can have a better chance to move up to or succeed in a management position in his/her future than you. Or programming is all you can do for the rest of your life, and then I won't be surprised that much. Not everyone can supervise the other, but it seems not be your case because you will be in a position needs to be supervised. ...did it ever occur to you that there are people to whom an "office environment" is unpleasant precisely b e c a u s e it forces everyone into an identical mold? I am a man who finds suits and ties uncomfortable, impractical and repugnant, particularly in the warm climate enjoyed by much of the U.S. People's expectations that I dress in such a monkey suit to fit t h e i r idea of how one should dress in an office make me mad. -- Prentiss Riddle Prentiss, my answer is *no*. If there are such people like *that*, then I do feel sorry for them because they happen to be at a wrong place. If you go to a nude beach, you wear nothing. If you jog, you wear a warm suit. ...And if you go to work, you have to do/wear whatever suitable for an office environment. That's *very* simple. People who asked you to wear what you called monkey suit make you mad? I believe so. If you put that suit on a monkey, he *sure* gets mad too. I don't wear suit to work everyday, but I never think it (suit) is for monkey. I wore suit when I was on the airplane to be sent to this country for my education from my government. I love my country even it's a poor, underdevelopped country, where there're very few people wear suit and, of course, I didn't wear suit that much there, but all of those factors didn't make me *not* to wear a suit when I went aboard because I was proud to represent my country, my people, and I wanted that someone, whom I might meet/know during my journey, from other part of the world should know where I came from (through my appearance naturally). I did wear a suit when I had interviews with Bethlehem Steel and CCI, and I will continue to do so for my next job interview (and I already got one and would leave CCI the day after tomorrow). Anyway, many thanks to both of you for sharing your opinion with me, and hope that my last article will not cause any annoyed problem to anyone on the net. Farewell and best wishes to you all. Regards, Thomas Thanh Ngo P.S.: Please note that I won't be on the net after Sept 14, and so don't send any mail to me.
gary@rochester.UUCP (Gary Cottrell) (09/14/83)
Phew! I'm glad *he's* leaving the net! gary cottrell