anita@drux3.UUCP (05/18/84)
--
I don't know if this topic has been discussed here before, but here goes.
I've been quite aware since I was a teenager that the bonds of female
friendship in American society are not very strong. The topic has been
discussed quite a bit in the media, etc., but I really haven't noticed
much improvement. I really expected that with the spread of feminism
women would become more aware of the value of female friends, but I don't
see much evidence of that in my everyday life. Since most of the women I
meet are professionals, and thus at least somewhat more liberal than the
general population, I find this a little disturbing. I still find men
maintaining male friendships much more strongly after they start a
love relationship than women do. This is becoming an important topic with
me as being in a male dominated field already, it's becoming harder and
harder to find women who have any interest in having a real friendship
with a woman, because the few women I meet are, for the most part, involved
in steady relationships with men.
This seems to preclude any possiblity of having any strong bond to anyone
but their husbands (or boyfriends). From what I understand this isn't the
case in some other countries. Does anyone have any information on this,
or any experiences that may shed some light on the subject?
Anita
P.S. - I am currently involved in a serious relationship with a man.rachel@inmet.UUCP (05/22/84)
#R:drux3:-116200:inmet:16200008:000:3 inmet!rachel May 21 10:43:00 1984 -
jamcmullan@watmath.UUCP (Judy McMullan) (05/24/84)
I can't believe this! I have always thought the case was exactly
the opposite!
I thought found that friendships among girls/women were much
closer than those that men seem to have. A lot of men are forever
competing so that, even with their friends, they are always em-
phasizing how much they can drink or how much their car cost or
how often they have sex, etc. The friend can not relax as he is
always thinking of ways to show he is not inferior.
With women, you *OFTEN* see them having long, intimate talks.
What about the overnight visits with your "best friend" when you
talked all night about everything under the sun (and especially
BOYS)? What about the girl next door who you played dolls with?
What about the girl you walked to school with, talking all the
while? Didn't you ever have someone cut your hair for you or show
you how to roll up your skirt once you got to school so you could
wear a mini-skirt when your Mom wouldn't let you? etc. etc.
My family moved about the country a lot when I was a child. I
have lived in a couple of towns in northern Ontario, in Van-
couver, and in four different towns/cities in southern Ontario.
In all those places but one, I had a girl or woman who was my
"best friend". (Girls were always careful to say who their best
friend was and you could only have ONE best friend. In fact, in
one grade school I went to, one even said that you had "broken
up" if you had a falling out with your best friend.) If I had
stayed in Toronto longer I think I would have found a woman or
two to meet my needs. I sure missed having someone!
Of course the "best friend" digression doesn't say anything about
the quality of friendship but I believe, and many of my female
friends seem to be of the same mind, that nothing can replace a
close woman friend. No matter what my current (male) lover is
like, I can never discuss things with him like I can with a wom-
an. I was just bemoaning this with my "best friend" who has moved
to another city. She and her husband were visiting me for the
weekend and neither of us have found someone to take the other's
place, yet. We were so happy to have part of the time when it was
just "we two" and we could chat in that special way.
Now, all the cities I have lived in have been in Canada but my
sister was living in a town in Pennsylvania and she was able to
find a special friend there, too. (Besides I don't think American
and Canadian cultures are very different. I think regional
differences within each country mean more than differences
between the countries).
Perhaps you have had bad luck. Perhaps you haven't made the time
for yourself, to spend with your women friends. I found it was
easy to have girlfriends when I was in school but now, I must al-
most "court" someone, in the sense that I have to make opportuni-
ties to be with other women. I am in one all-woman service organ-
ization and find a lot of fascinating women that way. I also make
sure that I invite others along on theatre outings or camping
trips or just over for dinner. Usually I invite a couple or
several people (any or mixed sexes). Often the women find them-
selves chatting in a quiet corner. I also invite another woman
along if I have a spare theatre ticket or if I want to see a par-
ticular movie that I think she would enjoy.
I guess the answer is, if it doesn't happen in the usual course
of your life, then make opportunities for friendships to form. I
am sure that if you keep meeting women you are bound to find one
or two that you can be close to.
--Judy McMullan
{decvax | clyde | ihnp4 | allegra}!watmath!jamcmullanlmf@drutx.UUCP (FullerL) (05/24/84)
<> I agree with JAM's thoughts on women friends. I have lived in New Mexico (Las Cruces, Los Alamos, and Albuquerque), California (Davis), and Colorado (Boulder and Colorado Springs) and have always found close women friends whether or not I was involved in a primary relationship. Sometimes it wasn't easy especially, when I was new in town and all the engineers I worked with were men or when 90% of the people in my classes were men. My mother and sister have also always had close women friends. Lori Fuller
referee@sdccsu3.UUCP (Cindy the Referee) (06/09/84)
>>A: ...the bonds of female friendship in America are not very strong. >>JAM: ...friendships among girls/women [are] much closer than those that men seem to have. Comparison of Men's and Women's Friendships Men Women -------------------------- -------------------------- Group-oriented Individually-oriented Competitive Supportive Information conversations Emotional conversations Harder to make new friends Easier to make new friends NOTE: These are by no means absolute criteria, just general tendencies. The reason that women's friendships deteriorate when one acquires an SO may be the popular belief that "you can only have ONE best friend", as JAM says. If you believe that... Men's friendships, being group-oriented, are able to survive the arrival of a new SO, but look at the built-in conflicts of men's friendships! I think the reason why ANY friendship falls apart is because at least one person changes, and the two people can't resolve the conflict by accepting the changes. Now, if you are concerned about meeting other women professionals who understand the problems of being in a male-dominated occupation, perhaps your employer has a women's support group, and there is also SWE--the Society of Women Engineers, an organization where I've made a lot of friends. Or if you have other special interests, join an appropriate special interest group. Involvement is the key. -- Cindy [...]sdcsvax!sdccsu3!referee