cgeiger@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (charles s. geiger) (07/12/85)
> > Woa there! There is a definite moral difference between killing > > wildlife and supporting the butchering of domestic animals that were > > raised for that purpose. (Not that I exclusively object to or > > condone either). > So what is that difference? (I hope you won't think I'm trying to > retroactively change the question if I specify here hunting where the > hunter plans on eating the meat obtained. I certainly don't feel like > defending psychotics who just enjoy blowing things away.) If there's > a definite moral difference, Ed, I'm sure you wouldn't mind letting me > know what it is? I don't approve of killing animals anytime; however, for me hunting is a much less disgusting act because at least those wild animals have had a taste of really living, of being free (for a while anyway). Most cows, sheep, and chickens which are raised for human consumption spend their entire lives cooped up in absolutely awful, inhumane conditions. I saw a chicken "ranch" when I was a kid, and I didn't feel good about eating chickens from then on (I became a vegetarian a couple of years ago). These chickens are kept in wire cages, constantly standing, for their entire lives, fed practially nothing but growth hormones and drugs which encourage them to eat more. Cattle are treated similarly. And I don't care how stupid these animals are! Nothing deserves this type of treatment. # Your state wildlife service (what ever their name) does maintain the # deer population above the *natural* environment's carring capacity # because of the assumption that hunters will reduce the population. # I call this 'raised for that purpose'. The only problem is Darwin # gets all messed up! Like I said before, at least these wild animals have some freedom. The sad thing about hunting, though, is that people who hunt use the above (reducing population) as an excuse to hunt. It seems to me that re-introducing the natural predators (whom man has hunted away) would solve that problem a lot easier.
johnbl@tekig5.UUCP (John Blankenagel) (07/16/85)
[ ]
Have you ever seen a cat stalking mice? Or have you seen how a dog seems
to enjoy bird hunting. Man is also an animal, so why can't he also enjoy
hunting animals. I like to hunt deer. I eat the meat when I get it, and
I very much enjoy stalking and shooting the animal. There is a lot of
exhilaration in killing a live animal. Admittedly, the fun ends after the
animal is killed, the cleaning, skinning etc. is not nearly as much fun as
the shooting. I also enjoy hunting varmints. These animals are detrimental
to farmers and therefore it is very important to exterminate them. I am
refering to rabbits, prarie dogs and such animals. I do try to make the
hunt a bit more sporting though. I only carry a .357 magnum pistol. This
makes it more difficult. I have to actually stalk the animal (rabbits).
It is verry hard to hit rabbits when they are running so you must sneak
up on them when they are sitting still and blast them. Very fun! If they
don't die right away, I am very humane in that I stomp them with my foot
to put them out of their misery. I don't like to see animals suffer too
much.
Any way, the point is that hunting is a good hobby. Some animals can be
hunted for food, and some can be hunted simply to exterminate them. Either
way it can be very enjoyable. I do not hunt animals that are not
dammaging to farms ranches etc. such as barn swallows, magpies, vultures,
eagles, hawks, and other insect or varmint eating birds. I also do not
hunt people.
Happy hunting!
Johnsunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) (07/18/85)
> Have you ever seen a cat stalking mice? Or have you seen how a dog seems > to enjoy bird hunting. Man is also an animal, so why can't he also enjoy > hunting animals. I like to hunt deer. I eat the meat when I get it, and > I very much enjoy stalking and shooting the animal. There is a lot of > exhilaration in killing a live animal. Then you won't mind those UFOs mutilating cattle or hunting humans, eh? :-) -- {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)
js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (07/18/85)
> I don't approve of killing animals anytime; however, for me hunting > is a much less disgusting act because at least those wild animals > have had a taste of really living, of being free (for a while anyway). > > Most cows, sheep, and chickens which are raised for human consumption > spend their entire lives cooped up in absolutely awful, inhumane > conditions. I saw a chicken "ranch" when I was a kid, and I didn't > feel good about eating chickens from then on (I became a vegetarian > a couple of years ago). These chickens are kept in wire cages, > constantly standing, for their entire lives, fed practially nothing > but growth hormones and drugs which encourage them to eat more. > Cattle are treated similarly. And I don't care how stupid these > animals are! Nothing deserves this type of treatment. I don't know how chickens are treated, but my parents raise beef cattle ont their farm, and I *do* know that you're wrong about the way cattle are treated. ~15 of them, plus a few calves spend their lives hanging out in a ~25 acre pasture, stuffing their faces with grass, or standing in the shade chewing their cuds. They have shelter from the cold, are fed well during the winter, and are treated with all the respect you would expect a poor farmer to give a ~$800 investment. > > # Your state wildlife service (what ever their name) does maintain the > # deer population above the *natural* environment's carring capacity > # because of the assumption that hunters will reduce the population. > # I call this 'raised for that purpose'. The only problem is Darwin > # gets all messed up! > > Like I said before, at least these wild animals have some freedom. > The sad thing about hunting, though, is that people who hunt use > the above (reducing population) as an excuse to hunt. It seems to > me that re-introducing the natural predators (whom man has hunted > away) would solve that problem a lot easier. Now there's an intelligent idea. Outlaw hunting, and then when the deer start overrunning, say, New Jersey, you just import several thousand wolves and cougars and grizzley bears to solve the problem. Of course, we'll have to let the people who suddenly find themselves missing cattle, pets, children, etc, that it was all *your* idea. -- Jeff Sonntag ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j "Well I've been burned before, and I know the score, so you won't hear me complain. Are you willing to risk it all, or is your love in vain?"-Dylan
colonel@gloria.UUCP (Col. G. L. Sicherman) (07/18/85)
[Heheheheh ... I'm gonna catch me a wabbit!] > Have you ever seen a cat stalking mice? Or have you seen how a dog seems > to enjoy bird hunting. Man is also an animal, so why can't he also enjoy > hunting animals. I like to hunt deer. I eat the meat when I get it, and > I very much enjoy stalking and shooting the animal. There is a lot of > exhilaration in killing a live animal. This the only sensible defense of hunting I've seen on the net. And I can't think of any possible rebuttal that doesn't reduce to "Baaad hunter! No, no, no!" -- Col. G. L. Sicherman UU: ...{rocksvax|decvax}!sunybcs!colonel CS: colonel@buffalo-cs BI: csdsicher@sunyabva
ethan@utastro.UUCP (Ethan Vishniac) (07/18/85)
> > Then you won't mind those UFOs mutilating cattle or hunting humans, eh? > > :-) Let this message bear formal witness to the fact that I do hereby grant permission to any inhabitants of other planets currently on the net to mutilate any cattle in my posession. -- "Don't argue with a fool. Ethan Vishniac Borrow his money." {charm,ut-sally,ut-ngp,noao}!utastro!ethan Department of Astronomy University of Texas
lonetto@phri.UUCP (Michael Lonetto) (07/20/85)
> I also enjoy hunting varmints. These animals are detrimental > to farmers and therefore it is very important to exterminate them. I am > refering to rabbits, prarie dogs and such animals. I do try to make the > hunt a bit more sporting though. I only carry a .357 magnum pistol. This > makes it more difficult. I have to actually stalk the animal (rabbits). > It is verry hard to hit rabbits when they are running so you must sneak > up on them when they are sitting still and blast them. Very fun! If they > don't die right away, I am very humane in that I stomp them with my foot > to put them out of their misery. I don't like to see animals suffer too > much. > > Happy hunting! > > John You make me sick. -- ____________________ Michael Lonetto Public Health Research Institute, 455 1st Ave, NY, NY 10016 (allegra!phri!lonetto) "BUY ART, NOT COCAINE"
barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) (07/22/85)
>> Most cows, sheep, and chickens which are raised for human consumption >> spend their entire lives cooped up in absolutely awful, inhumane >> conditions. I saw a chicken "ranch" when I was a kid, and I didn't >> feel good about eating chickens from then on (I became a vegetarian >> a couple of years ago). These chickens are kept in wire cages, >> constantly standing, for their entire lives, fed practially nothing >> but growth hormones and drugs which encourage them to eat more. >> Cattle are treated similarly. And I don't care how stupid these >> animals are! Nothing deserves this type of treatment. > > I don't know how chickens are treated, but my parents raise beef cattle >ont their farm, and I *do* know that you're wrong about the way cattle are >treated. ~15 of them, plus a few calves spend their lives hanging out in >a ~25 acre pasture, stuffing their faces with grass, or standing in the >shade chewing their cuds. They have shelter from the cold, are fed well >during the winter, and are treated with all the respect you would expect >a poor farmer to give a ~$800 investment. I think you're both right. I believe that dairy cows are the ones given factory-style treatment on modern dairy farms. They live their lives standing in one stall, pretty much. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,nsc,hao,hplabs}!ames!barry
cuda@ihuxf.UUCP (Mike Nelson) (07/24/85)
> I also enjoy hunting varmints. These animals are detrimental > to farmers and therefore it is very important to exterminate them. I am > refering to rabbits, prarie dogs and such animals. I do try to make the > hunt a bit more sporting though. I only carry a .357 magnum pistol. This > makes it more difficult. I have to actually stalk the animal (rabbits). > It is verry hard to hit rabbits when they are running so you must sneak > up on them when they are sitting still and blast them. Very fun! If they > don't die right away, I am very humane in that I stomp them with my foot > to put them out of their misery. I don't like to see animals suffer too > much. > > Happy hunting! > > John And I thought I was the only one who stomped on the little bunnies head. Back from the farm in South East Idaho. Mike Nelson ihuxf!cuda AT&T Bell Labs
allynh@ucbvax.ARPA (Allyn Hardyck) (07/24/85)
>> I also enjoy hunting varmints. These animals are detrimental >> to farmers and therefore it is very important to exterminate them. I am >> refering to rabbits, prarie dogs and such animals. I do try to make the >> hunt a bit more sporting though. I only carry a .357 magnum pistol. This >> makes it more difficult. I have to actually stalk the animal (rabbits). >> It is verry hard to hit rabbits when they are running so you must sneak >> up on them when they are sitting still and blast them. Very fun! If they >> don't die right away, I am very humane in that I stomp them with my foot >> to put them out of their misery. I don't like to see animals suffer too >> much. >> >> Happy hunting! >> >> John > >You make me sick. Subtlety! Subtlety! Can't you see this guy is pulling a Kelvin Thompson on you? (that is if you read net.movies). Stomping rabbits with one's feet? Give me a break! What he is doing would be illegal in many ways. Geez, must everything posted to the net be like a written sledgehammer?
jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) (07/25/85)
>>> Most cows, sheep, and chickens which are raised for human consumption >>> spend their entire lives cooped up in absolutely awful, inhumane >>> conditions. >>> ... >>> Nothing deserves this type of treatment. >> >> I don't know how chickens are treated, but my parents raise beef cattle >>ont their farm, and I *do* know that you're wrong about the way cattle are >>treated. >>... > I think you're both right. I believe that dairy cows are the > ones given factory-style treatment on modern dairy farms. They live their > lives standing in one stall, pretty much. > - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry Noooooooo, I don't think that's necessarily true. I'm from Ohio, and there are a *whole lot* of beef cattle who spend their lives crowded into feedlots which don't give them room to move (I think it mades the meat more tender), churning the ground into mud, and generally living pretty lousy lives. ***Note: I still enjoy meat. -- AMBAR {the known universe}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand "To those who love it is given to hear Music too high for the human ear." --Bruce Cockburn
waynekn@tekig5.UUCP (Wayne Knapp) (07/26/85)
> >> I also enjoy hunting varmints. These animals are detrimental > >> Happy hunting! > >> > >> John > > > >You make me sick. > > Subtlety! Subtlety! Can't you see this guy is pulling a Kelvin Thompson > on you? (that is if you read net.movies). Stomping rabbits with one's feet? > Give me a break! What he is doing would be illegal in many ways. Geez, > must everything posted to the net be like a written sledgehammer? I think you must be on drugs! I sit right next to John and he really does stomp on rabbit heads. A true barbarian! Anyway what do you mean by written sledgehammer and who in the heck is Kelvin Thompson or who even cares? And since when is stomping rabbits illegal? Sincerely, Wayne P.S. I'm sure my employer (Tektronix Inc.) doesn't hold the same views.
seshadri@t12tst.UUCP (Raghavan Seshadri) (08/06/85)
> > Have you ever seen a cat stalking mice? Or have you seen how a dog seems > > to enjoy bird hunting. Man is also an animal, so why can't he also enjoy > > hunting animals. I like to hunt deer. I eat the meat when I get it, and > > I very much enjoy stalking and shooting the animal. There is a lot of > > exhilaration in killing a live animal. > > This the only sensible defense of hunting I've seen on the net. And I > can't think of any possible rebuttal that doesn't reduce to "Baaad hunter! > No, no, no!" O k,How about this one.Dogs and cats are purely creatures of instinct untouched by any notions of rationality,intelligence,culture,civilization,compassion etc.This is what is meant when people refer to a vicious person as an animal. A modern hunter with his high power rifles ,telescopic sights,and all the rest of high tech paraphernalia can hardly argue that his activities are somehow 'natural'.If you want to be 'natural',go and hunt without weapons just like dogs and cats do. -- Raghu Seshadri
bwm@ccice1.UUCP (Bradford W. Miller) (08/09/85)
In article <496@t12tst.UUCP> seshadri@t12tst.UUCP (Raghavan Seshadri) writes: >> > Man is also an animal, so why can't he also enjoy >> > hunting animals. I like to hunt deer. I eat the meat when I get it, and >> > I very much enjoy stalking and shooting the animal. There is a lot of >> > exhilaration in killing a live animal. >> >> This the only sensible defense of hunting I've seen on the net. And I >> can't think of any possible rebuttal that doesn't reduce to "Baaad hunter! >> No, no, no!" > >O k,How about this one.Dogs and cats are purely creatures of instinct >untouched by any notions of rationality,intelligence,culture,civilization,compassion etc.This is what is meant when people refer to a vicious person as an >animal. >A modern hunter with his high power rifles ,telescopic sights,and all the rest >of high tech paraphernalia can hardly argue that his activities are somehow >'natural'.If you want to be 'natural',go and hunt without weapons just like >dogs and cats do. Rather than natural weapons, like claws, man has brains so he can make high-powered rifles to do the work. This IS natural. -- ..[cbrma, ccivax, ccicpg, rayssd, ritcv, rlgvax, rochester]!ccice5!ccice1!bwm
bsisrs@rruxe.UUCP (R. Schiraldi) (08/15/85)
Instead of using weapons of death and destruction, why not use a camera
and simply stalk the pray. I use to "hunt" and kill fish when I went
SCUBA diving (I used a high power spear gun), but found that stalking
then and hunting them with a camera was infinatly more rewarding for
me and my "game". I still hunt and kill some, but only flounder and
lobsters; flounders are VERY stupid, they will swim into my catch bag
with very little perswation (sp?) from me. However, it is ALWAYS
open season on lobster.
RichS
rruxe!bsisrs
P.S.
I sold that spear gun since I didn't use it for almost 2 years!!tw8023@pyuxii.UUCP (T Wheeler) (08/15/85)
The only problem with hunting with a camera is that the film is hard to cook and I can never figure out what seasonings to use. Seriously, camera hunting is a wonderful pastime and can be very rewarding. However, for certain beasties, such as deer, elk, ducks, and geese, there are also rewards on the dinner plate. I have not hunted in years, but when I did, it was with visions of a venison steak or a well turned goose. Not all hunters are blood thirsty. Many, especially in the west, use hunting to supplement the family larder. And, with the cutting of many forests and the subsequent scrub growth (a deer or elks fast food resturant) the deer and elk population has exploded. Culling the herds can bring them down to more manageable size. Yes, I have heard all of the arguments about cutting herd sizes, but most of them are from naive non-hunters whose vision of reality is clouded by the image of Bambi. Camera hunting underwater sounds very interesting, except for those dumb Flounder and Lobsters (yummm). Most of the rest of the fish population would be fun to pursue with camera in hand. But, for sheer gastronomical enjoyment, I'll take a properly prepared venison or elk steak or a finely basted duck or goose. T. C. Wheeler
seshadri@t12tst.UUCP (Raghavan Seshadri) (08/19/85)
> From: bwm@ccice1.UUCP (Bradford W. Miller) > Rather than natural weapons, like claws, man has brains so he can make > high-powered rifles to do the work. This IS natural. > So where do you draw the line between natural/ artificial ? Are laser weapons, ICBMs....natural too ? They are products of man's brain ,after all. -- Raghu Seshadri