harold@hp-pcd.UUCP (02/06/84)
It's early Monday morning and I'm sure I'm not fully awake. Why else would I submit such a flame request as follows?? I have observed a *LOT* of people who have the attitude of "if you can get away with it, do it; and if you get caught, try to 'beat the rap'". My personal feeling is that such an attitude has a major impact on the type of society we live in. The most significant result is that people are encourage to *AVOID RESPONSIBILITY* for their actions. This is particularly damaging to youth who are trying to come to grips with what "society" expects of them. The type of "society" which I want to live in requires that people accept the responsibility (AND any consequences) for their actions. In other words, if they choose to speed, when they get caught they pay the penalty. If they were truly *NOT* speeding, then by all means fight to have their innocence protected. If, on the other hand, they were speeding, they should shut up and pay the fine. This applies to all aspects of our society, not just driving cars. The above is my own opinion. I would welcome further insight from those more closely affiliated with the law enforcement/ interpretation part of our society.
twh@mb2c.UUCP (Tim Hitchcock) (02/09/84)
If you are honest enough to admit guilt, *society* will punish you, whereas if you lie, you walk. Now . . . tell me what the intelligent choice is ?
ray@utcsrgv.UUCP (Raymond Allen) (02/11/84)
I agree that everyone should accept responsibility for their own
actions. HOWEVER, what do you do when you are accused of an offence (for
the sake of the current discussion, speeding) where it is apparant that
you may have been "set up." Consider the case that often happens: You
are driving along a road at, or near, the speed limit. You decend a moderate
grade and you gain an extra 5 or 10 MPH (8 to 16 KMH in Canada). Out
from behind a tree leaps your friendly police officer ("OK sucko, pull
over") and you find yourself stuck with a legitimate speeding ticket.
In such a case you are certainly guilty. I can't believe that
*any* of you out there in net-land would accept such a ticket and pay
it without some feeling that you were cheated.
THE MORAL: You can't generalize (hey I'm really brilliant to see
that :-) ) You must always consider the circumstances surrounding any
given event. If police use radar to catch speeders using techniques similar
to those descibed above, then you might tend to conclude that they are
just trying to raise money for the government. Speeding is an offence
because it can be dangerous. If the speeding laws are to be enforced, I
feel that they should be enforced with such consideration in mind.
Comments?
From the verbose keyboard of,
Ray Allen
utcsrgv!ray
(416) 978-5036decot@cwruecmp.UUCP (Dave Decot) (02/12/84)
. From: twh@mb2c.UUCP (Tim Hitchcock):
If you are honest enough to admit guilt, *society* will punish you,
whereas if you lie, you walk. Now . . . tell me what the intelligent
choice is ?
Admit guilt. If you don't deserve the sentence, you can fight it in court.
You may in doing so put an end to some unjust legislation. This benefits you
and prevents unfair punishment of others, which would have embittered them,
and may have led them to commit actual crimes for "revenge against the system."
Lying may get you caught in a perjury rap, and even if it doesn't, you have
unfairly gained advantage over someone else. If you encourage this practice,
you increase the chances that someone will do it to you someday.
There is too much disinformation these days; it can only be stopped by
responsible truthfulness.
Dave Decot "Non-Americans are people, too."
decvax!cwruecmp!decot (Decot.Case@rand-relay)wjb@burl.UUCP (Bill Buie) (02/16/84)
-- The intelligent choice is to avoid becoming guilty in the first place. -- --Bill Buie
lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) (02/24/84)
My appreciation to harold for getting this going, and to those who
support the idea.
Bill Buie said it the best:
"Avoid becoming guilty in the first place."
For Hitchcock: when the officer wrote it up "AS *YOUR* FAULT," did he
note the condition of the guys? Further, you stated that "(in fact it
was) [green]." Whatever evidence gave you that conclusion should stand
in court. In any case, just state what you remember, without venturing
guesses until you relax enough to be able to verify them. If you need
time to calm down, take it.
If you think a law is bad, write your legislator. They DO read mail. But
showing disrepect for the law is a good precedent for someone to show
disrespect for a law that would protect *your* rights.
Maybe what it takes for some people to learn is for someone to rip them
off royally -- then get off on a technicality.
Larry Bickford, {ihnp4,ucbvax}!{sun,amd70,decwrl}!qubix!lab
--
The Ice Floe of the Q-Bick
{ucbvax,ihnp4}!{decwrl,amd70}!qubix!lab
decwrl!qubix!lab@Berkeley.ARPA