cwc@mhuxd.UUCP (05/15/84)
- Many years ago, a friend then attending the U. of Alabama took me out to eat at a quaint little place called the Cotton Patch, just over the Mississippi border. According to the liquor laws and local custom, no booze was permitted in open view, but it was perfectly acceptable to bring-your-own (in a brown bag, of course) and for the restaurant to sell set-ups. I have still not seen a more concentrated collection of brown bags than I saw sitting on tables that night, even in some of New York City's seedier neighborhoods. Chip
stanwyck@ihuxr.UUCP (Don Stanwyck) (05/16/84)
Let's here from those people in Utah, who until they leave the state are never aware that some places you can be served booze. When I was there on a recruiting trip some time back (be recruited prior to taking present job) you had to go to the basement of the Hilton to a state liquor store to buy wine, then carry it up (braown-bagged) to the fancy restaurant at the top of the Hilton. When we went out to dinner, one restaurant had it's own state liquor store in the front lobby, another had a guy parked out front selling wine from the trunk of his car. C'mon, utah residents (if there are such), tell us more....... -- ________ ( ) Don Stanwyck @( o o )@ 312-979-3062 ( || ) Cornet-367-3062 ( \__/ ) ihnp4!ihuxr!stanwyck (______) Bell Labs @ Naperville, IL
werner@ut-ngp.UUCP (05/16/84)
Are you aware that most of you have never tasted one of the most delicious items in the world? Chocolate filled with fruits and alcohol ..... (MonCheri, for example) Talking about stupid laws. All in the name of protecting kids ... but you may have guns, bottled booze, pharmaceuticals, cars, rat poison .... On my first visit ever to this country, I ended up eating them by the boxful before going through customs, to the detriment of our hosts ... Since then, I get them 'smuggled' in by 'mules' (visiting tourists, who play dumb) and by carrier-pigeons ... (just kidding, OF COURSE, hehe) Another MOST IRRITATING obstacle to my way of living finds me at the cash register after midnight not being able to buy my beer and wine during my usual early morning grocery shopping outings, leaving you-know-what behind. $#@!%$#@& SERIOUSLY, folks, the alcohol laws are one of the most detrimental laws in this society. It makes criminals out of our kids, randomly punished in a high-stake lottery with a small probability of losing, but then losing big. It brings kids up in an environment where breaking the law is the rule, and all respect for it is lost early on. (Come to think of it, it has the same effect on adults, driving after a coktail-party.) When kids drink, they are out, usually in cars, driving, doing other stupid things, getting themselves killed, maimed, into legal troubles, and not least, because they can't take a half empty bottle home to store, and because they have to sobber up before going home, cruising around, usually. We must have a lot fewer people with criminal records in Germany, because we never had those kind of troubles, partying at home and in bars without ever being aware that elsewhere inthe world, (in a famous FREE country) kids would get into troubles for that. And the Mafia simply thrives by benefitting of alcohol, drug, and gambling laws in this country, what is this, anyway? A kindergarten? How dare anyone tell us that we are not 'grown-up' enough to gamble, smoke a joint, buy beer on a Sunday morning, etc? In my opinion, anyone who defends the current laws, is close to 'criminal negligence' in that their effect is deadly on our youth and society as a whole. FREEDOM means not being limited in what we may or may not do, while the LAW should dole out punishment to those who infringe the FREEDOM of others. PREVENTIVE LEGISLATION by limiting the freedom of one to protect the freedom of others is a very dangerous way to go, indeed, and should be restricted to matters regulating items which have an explicit purpose and high probability of harming others, like atomic bombs and hand-guns, for example. Filled chocolates don't fall into that category, neither does selling beer. Regulating does not mean outlawing, I don't mind if you keep a hand-gun at a shooting range in a locker, and get your kicks by blasting away at targets, BUT even pointing a gun at another person or handling it carelessly, otherwise, at the range should be SEVERELY punished. SOLUTIONS (I always try to have a suggestion, at least): 1) Abolish all laws restricting the use of liquor. Pass laws, SEVERELY punishing acts resulting from losing control under the influence. like accidents caused by drunk drivers, but not a certain level of alcohol in the blood, when stopped while driving perfectly normal. Or acts of aggression against kids, wife, anyone. Gradual age-reduction, like going to 18, only lengthens the agony caused by the change. But it's like going metric: first it hurts a little, but your grand-children will thank you. 2) Tax the alcohol and use the proceeds to cover costs inflicted on society from abuse, as well as to help those who suffer from alcohol abuse. Maybe add a luxury tax, and a charity tax to go a variety of charities, whatever, but not to the point of totally destroying the relationship between cost and price of the article. Remember, that this country was (supposedly) founded by people who fled oppression in religion and life-style (and economics), let's not have that evil enter through the back-door of passing life-style regulating laws by majority-vote, remember that both Hitler and Mussolini were voted into office, and then people could not get rid of them anymore without a major disaster. Unfortunately, many laws passed by those regimes are still on the books today, as well as social laws passed as far back as the mid-19th century. In the interest of future generations, maybe all laws should be passed with a sunset clause, abolishing them automatically, and allowing our children to determine their own way of life with ease rather than pain. Ahhh, I got carried away rambling ....
ron@brl-vgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (05/17/84)
This reminds me: Several years ago while attending a Close Up foundation seminar the speaker mentioned that he had a solution to end the problem of beer cans on the sides of the roads. Lower the drinking age. Raise the driving age. Said the problem was teenagers sneaking beers and disposing of the empties before they got home. -Ron
guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) (05/18/84)
Once, in New Jersey, when I was underage, I wanted to order a flambed
duck, but couldn't because it was made by pouring (gasp) *ALCOHOL* on
the duck and setting it on fire; never mind that the alcohol was all
burned away before this poor young child could get blotto on it, it was
the *principle* of the thing...
Guy Harris
{seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guylepreau@utah-cs.UUCP (Jay Lepreau) (05/18/84)
Come to USENIX and find all all about it thru bitter experience. Actually, it's not so bad here. We will be providing a guide in the packet you get upon registration, or else a short verbal guide. 1. The only alcohol sold without any unusual restrictions is 3.2 beer, in supermarkets, "beer bars", and restaurants. 2. You can't get "normal" hard-liquor-by-the-drink except at "private clubs," but you can join most clubs for just a week, I think, at a special discount tourist rate or something. 3. Instead of bars, restaurants have on-site "micro state liquor stores" which sell mini-bottles at the standard price. You order your setup from the waiter or waitress, but have to leave the table to buy your booze. Or you can bring your booze with you. Same goes for wine: a rather steep corkage charge, but you can always bring your own or buy it there. A place can only do this only if it is a legitimate restaraunt, but I'm not sure how strictly that is enforced. 4. Beer stronger than 3.2 (which means better, unfortunately, such as imports) has to be bought at a state liquor store, *by the bottle*, which makes it very expensive. 5. There aren't very many full-size state liquor stores. I think the legislature was about to pass a law a few years ago prohibiting liquor stores within some short distance, like 200 yards, of a school or church, when someone discovered that outlawed practically all of them in Salt Lake City! State store prices aren't too bad, except for beer, and there is one fairly decent state wine store. One effect of all this is that you save a lot of money at fancy restaurants because you can bring your own wine. Another is that drinks can be very stiff, cause mini bottles are pretty big. Guess I just wrote the guide. I won't swear to it's accuracy though, I drink at home... Jay Lepreau Univ of Utah
thomas@utah-gr.UUCP (Spencer W. Thomas) (05/18/84)
Note: we will have a "bar" available for conference attendees in the Hotel Utah on Tuesday night. It will be a "cash bar", in the sense that you will have to pay for setups - your glass and whatever goes in it. The booze is "free" (but the setups are steep). On Wed night, there is the BBQ at Snowbird, so you really only have to worry about Thursday night (and I bet there will be hospitality suites around). Summary: the bizarre Utah liquour laws may not affect conference attendees much. =S
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (05/18/84)
"The booze is 'free'", hmmm? Does this mean that I can grab a bottle
and swig directly from it and not pay anything? If you won't let me,
can I complain to the {random authority figure here} and get the
hosts/caterer/whoever arrested for violating the Utah liquor laws?
I would think that such polite evasions of the law by contrivances
such as charging booze prices for a glass of ice could easily backfire
if a concerted effort was made to take their logical conclusions to
the possible extremes. I encourage everybody going to USENIX to do
just that. It might make swimming through the streets worthwhile...
"If all laws were enforced, all legislators would be dead."
Will