js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) (01/03/85)
*** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE!! ***
I'd like to find out what states (especially those close to New Jersey) have
illegalized radar detectors. I'd also like to find out HOW they are
illegal. I mean, does the law state: '...possess any device designed to
detect electromagnetic radiation within the following frequencies ...'?
I always thought that EMR was a kind of public thing, and that once
you had transmitted something onto the public airwaves, it was not illegal
for ANYONE to receive it. I guess I'm wrong, but it still seems as
though measuring properties of the world around you should be a kind of
fundamental right.
But mainly, I want to find out what states nearest NJ have illegalized the
things, as I'm considering buying one. I'll attempt to summarize to the
net later.
--
Jeff Sonntag
ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j
"Hey, my new .signature file really works!"lmm@panda.UUCP (Linda M. McInnis) (01/03/85)
Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar detectors" is illegal. -- Linda M. McInnis USENET: genrad!teddy!lmm "I used to be disgusted, now I'm just amused."
ndiamond@watdaisy.UUCP (Norman Diamond) (01/04/85)
> Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar > detectors" is illegal. What about the use of a portable (uninstalled) radar detector? What about airports and such, which have installed and use devices that detect radar signals? -- Norman Diamond UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdaisy!ndiamond CSNET: ndiamond%watdaisy@waterloo.csnet ARPA: ndiamond%watdaisy%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa "Opinions are those of the keyboard, and do not reflect on me or higher-ups."
mroddy@enmasse.UUCP (Mark Roddy) (01/05/85)
> Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar > detectors" is illegal. It used to just say "use of radar detectors is illegal." It still doesn't say that posession of a radar detector is illegal. I live in Massachusetts, radar detectors legal, and have a permanently installed radar detector. What am I supposed to do when I get to the Connecticut border? get out and dis-install the thing? I had no problems with the previous state of affairs, i.e. turn the thing off, but this is ridiculous.
ed@mtxinu.UUCP (Ed Gould) (01/05/85)
> I'd like to find out what states (especially those close to New Jersey) have > illegalized radar detectors. It's my understanding that althought some states have passed laws banning radar detectors, they haven't been held enforcable in the courts. There seems to be no basis for banning a device that has no potential for doing what is otherwise a legal act. -- Ed Gould {ucbvax,decvax}!mtxinu!ed
strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) (01/07/85)
> > Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar > > detectors" is illegal. I was under the impression that the FCC gives you the right to moniter any sort of radio transmission that you like, as long as you don't forward the information to a third party. When did this change? What exactly is the situation? -- -- henry strickland -- the clouds project { akgua allegra hplabs inhp4 } -- school of ics / ga tech !gatech!strick -- atlanta ga 30332
msj@gitpyr.UUCP (Mike St. Johns) (01/07/85)
In article <11551@gatech.UUCP> strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) writes: >> > Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar >> > detectors" is illegal. > >I was under the impression that the FCC gives you the right to >moniter any sort of radio transmission that you like, as long >as you don't forward the information to a third party. > >When did this change? What exactly is the situation? > Radar detectors are also illegal in Virginia. Re monitoring: this can't be the case. For example, it is illegal in all states that I know about to have a police scanner IN YOUR CAR. I would be interested in hearing if any of these laws (anti-radar detector) have ever been challanged in court. I find the fact that you can be prosecuted for having tools for a crime without ever committing a crime highly disturbing. -- Mike St. Johns Georgia Insitute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!msj StJohns@MIT-Multics.ARPA (404) 982-0035
alien@gcc-opus.ARPA (Alien Wells) (01/07/85)
In article <258@enmasse.UUCP> mroddy@enmasse.UUCP (Mark Roddy) writes: >> Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar >> detectors" is illegal. In reality, any state which has a low forbidding radar detectors cannot enforce it. The FCC classifies radar detectors as radio receivers. There are federal laws protecting the rights of citizens to own and use radio receivers. The first case of a state anti-radar detector law being overturned was in Virginia. HOWEVER, the law itself was NOT overturned, but rather an injunction was placed on Virginia PROHIBITING THEM FROM ENFORCING the law. This means that they are still allowed to put up signs saying 'radar detectors illegal' since they are against the law. However, they are prohibited from enforcing that law by the feds. I know, in particular, that Virginia has had this injunction placed on them. I know that a number of other states have also joined this camp. I do not know if every state with an anti-radar detector law is in this category. I suspect that if someone really cared, an injunction could also be placed on them forbidding them from threatening people with a law they cannot prosecute, but I am not a legal expert. There is a book out called 'The Ticket Book' (can't remember the author or publisher, sorry) which I highly recommend for anyone interested. It is written by a former cop who did a lot of research, and has a lot of inside information about the psyche and methods of traffic cops. Alien
tierney@fortune.UUCP (Charles Tierney) (01/08/85)
In article <11551@gatech.UUCP> strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) writes: >> > Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar >> > detectors" is illegal. > >I was under the impression that the FCC gives you the right to >moniter any sort of radio transmission that you like, as long >as you don't forward the information to a third party. > >When did this change? What exactly is the situation? > >-- > -- henry strickland OK, as a native of the Great State of Connecticut, I shall respond. It is illegal to have a radar detector in CT. If they find one, they take it. If you take them to court, you lose (illegal). AH!! Now the catch! If you appeal enough to make it to FEDERAL COURT, you will WIN!!! The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. But no one has appealed this particular statute that far. Yet. This does point up an interesting problem in Law: The State or Municipality which KNOWINGLY makes a law which is illegal. Charlie Tierney (fortune!tierney)
mike@enmasse.UUCP (Mike Schloss) (01/08/85)
Uninstalled radar detectors are also illegal if the cop thinks that it may have been used while you were in the state. If it feels warm it probably was in use not to long ago. Its probably OK to keep it in your trunk but your glove compartment may be a little risky. In refernce to airports: When was the last time you saw an airport or even an airplane, cruising down I95. Anyone know if they try to confiscate the radar gear from the few planes that mistakeingly land on highways and bridges.
parnass@ihu1h.UUCP (Bob Parnass, AJ9S) (01/08/85)
> It is illegal to have a radar detector in CT. If they find one, they > take it. If you take them to court, you lose (illegal). . . > If you appeal enough to make it to FEDERAL COURT, you will > WIN!!! > > The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones > RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. . . > Charlie Tierney (fortune!tierney) Please cite this particular regulation. -- =============================================================================== Bob Parnass, Bell Telephone Laboratories - ihnp4!ihu1h!parnass - (312)979-5414
ndiamond@watdaisy.UUCP (Norman Diamond) (01/08/85)
> It is illegal to have a radar detector in CT. If they find one, they > take it. If you take them to court, you lose (illegal). > > AH!! Now the catch! > > If you appeal enough to make it to FEDERAL COURT, you will > WIN!!! > > The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones > RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. > > But no one has appealed this particular statute that far. Yet. > > This does point up an interesting problem in Law: The State or > Municipality which KNOWINGLY makes a law which is illegal. > > Charlie Tierney (fortune!tierney) The U.S. Constitution specifically exempts members of the U.S. Congress from legal processes -- they are free to break any laws they wish, including passing illegal laws. It doesn't speak for Connecticutt state legislators, and I don't know the Connecticutt constitution, but 5'll get you 10.... At least that's better than the Canadian situation. When the attorney-general maliciously prosecutes an innocent victim, or when a judge issues an incorrect order, guess who suffers and has to pay the legal fees and is not allowed to sue the erring party? Ignorance of the law is no excuse for ordinary citizens, but it sure is an excuse for legislators, judges, et. al. -- Norman Diamond UUCP: {decvax|utzoo|ihnp4|allegra|clyde}!watmath!watdaisy!ndiamond CSNET: ndiamond%watdaisy@waterloo.csnet ARPA: ndiamond%watdaisy%waterloo.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa "Opinions are those of the keyboard, and do not reflect on me or higher-ups."
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/09/85)
> > Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar > > detectors" is illegal. > > I live in Massachusetts, radar detectors legal, and have a > permanently installed radar detector. > > What am I supposed to do when I get to the Connecticut border? > get out and dis-install the thing? > Then it wasn't installed in Connecticut, was it? -Ron
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/09/85)
> > One might ask, for those who are worried about breaking the > law, of what earthly use are radar detectors in the first place > except to enable otherwise law-abiding citizens to break traffic > laws without getting caught. > I live in Maryland, home of the Dirty Trick State Patrol for speed enforcement. In most states you get a nice ten mile an hour grace on speed enforcement, but not here. I seldom drive more than five miles over the speed limit in the course of normal driving, but I don't have cruise control, and I'm not going to fixate on the speedometer. I have managed to pick up two speeding tickets in my driving carreer as a result. It's a pain in the ass. I'd just like to know when to be on my best behaviour. One especially annoying place is a road near my house that is a very steep down grade and a very steep up grade on the other side and the speed limit is 30 mph. Any car with reasonable bearings is going to exceed 30 by the bottom of the hill unless he rides the breaks all the way down...guess what the favorite place for the county mounty radar patrol is...(fortunately, I know that officer, and he only hits up the people going in excess of 45). JS&A's president refused to sell radar detectors for a while until he got caught in a similar situation. -Ron
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/09/85)
> What about airports and such, which have installed and use devices > that detect radar signals? > Actually it's the planes that detect the radar signals. -Ron
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (01/09/85)
> > I'd like to find out what states (especially those close to New Jersey) have > > illegalized radar detectors. > > It's my understanding that althought some states have passed > laws banning radar detectors, they haven't been held enforcable > in the courts. There seems to be no basis for banning a device > that has no potential for doing what is otherwise a legal act. > New Jersey is one of the facist states that doesn't allow scanners. I've always been glad I don't live there. -Ron
geb@cadre.UUCP (01/09/85)
Perhaps one solution to having the Connecticut Police confiscate your radar detector is to buy one that stays out of sight under the hood. Then they would have to search your car to find it, which requires a warrant.
strick@gatech.UUCP (henry strickland) (01/10/85)
> It is illegal to have a radar detector in CT. If they find one, they > take it. If you take them to court, you lose (illegal). > > AH!! Now the catch! > > If you appeal enough to make it to FEDERAL COURT, you will > WIN!!! > > The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones > RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. > > But no one has appealed this particular statute that far. Yet. > > This does point up an interesting problem in Law: The State or > Municipality which KNOWINGLY makes a law which is illegal. > > Charlie Tierney (fortune!tierney) Charlie -- thanks for answering my question about the FCC. Now .... who knows about the interesting problem in Law? I suppose this happens all the time, since you always hear of higher courts declaring things unconstitutional, or whatnot. Has anyone taken action against a State that KNOWINGLY makes illegal laws? Or against the people who wrote it? Is there a special place in the Inferno for them? -- -- henry strickland -- the clouds project { akgua allegra hplabs inhp4 } -- school of ics / ga tech !gatech!strick -- atlanta ga 30332
cej@ll1.UUCP (One of the Jones Boys) (01/10/85)
> It is illegal to have a radar detector in CT. If they find one, they > take it. If you take them to court, you lose (illegal). > > AH!! Now the catch! > > If you appeal enough to make it to FEDERAL COURT, you will > WIN!!! > > The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones > RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. > > Charlie Tierney (fortune!tierney) I may be wrong, but a while back the FCC/legislature passed the "Intended Receiver Act" (about the same time they changed my 1st class license to a "general class"). This is what makes it unlawful to intercept Showtime, et. al., even when they are transmitted omni-directionally and unencoded. There is such a set up in Cleveland, broadcasting unencoded Showtime, omni-directionally, up around 500MHz I believe, for commercial subscribers to receive. Anyone with line of sight to the Terminal Tower (or is it the Cleveland Landmark Tower now?) and a cheap converter can get it. However, they (the authorities) have been taking them down off of people's roofs every time they spot one, with the FCC's blessing! I realize it will most likely be a gray legal area for a while, but the flat statement: "The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation." can no longer be taken as a given truth. So the question may be: Are you the INTENDED RECEIVER of that radar signal or just the INTENDED REFLECTOR. ;-) ---------- Have you hugged me today? Chuck Jones (And if not, why not?) ...mgnetp!ll1!cej
mike@enmasse.UUCP (Mike Schloss) (01/11/85)
> There are federal laws protecting the rights of citizens to own and use > radio receivers. What about the state laws that say we are not allowed to have a radio in our cars that are capable of picking up police broadcasts.
larry@anasazi.UUCP (Larry Rodis) (01/12/85)
> > > Connecticut says that the "installation and use of radar > > > detectors" is illegal. > > I was under the impression that the FCC gives you the right to > moniter any sort of radio transmission that you like, as long > as you don't forward the information to a third party. > > When did this change? What exactly is the situation? > Connecticut's position on this is based on the fact that most radar detectors are mounted on the dash and are as such a hazard to the driver of the car. Therefore they are illiegal. larry
hosking@convexs.UUCP (01/12/85)
> > The FCC Act says the Gov't may not infringe upon anyones > > RECEPTION of electromagnetic radiation. > > > Please cite this particular regulation. > > Bob Parnass, Bell Telephone Laboratories - ihnp4!ihu1h!parnass - (312)979-5414 If memory serves me correctly, it's part of the Communications Act of 1934. Of course, there have been a lot of single bit errors recently..... Doug Hosking Convex Computer Corp. {allegra,ihnp4,uiucdcs,ctvax}!convex!convexs!hosking}
preston@fortune.UUCP (Carol Preston) (01/12/85)
Whenever I plan on driving my car out of state, I always call AAA and ask
them if radar detectors are legal in that state (or province). Does anyone
know where they get their information? I have always assumed that their
information was correct, but maybe it isn't. I have never been pulled over,
so I can't tell you if they told me they were legal where actually they weren't.
I must admit that the only illegal place so far has been Ontario. While I was
driving in the state of Washington and my radar detector went off, and a
passenger said they it was illegal. I quickly took it down, just to be safe.
I am no longer a member of AAA. If anybody is, could they ask them where they
get their information?
--
Carol Preston
{hpda, ihnp4, allegra, ucbvax|dual}!fortune!preston
(415) 594-2891
Fortune Systems, 101 Twin Dolphin Pkwy, Redwood Shores, CA 94065mike@enmasse.UUCP (Mike Schloss) (01/15/85)
> Perhaps one solution to having the Connecticut Police > confiscate your radar detector is to buy one that stays > out of sight under the hood. Then they would have to > search your car to find it, which requires a warrant. Not in most states (if not all), only probable cause. Examples of probable cause: 1) You zip by an unmarked patrol car at 65 and then mysteriously slow down immediately after the cop turns his radar on. 2) A cop his right behind you with his radar off. The cop turns his radar on for a moment and immediatly a red light flashes on your dash board. Your nailed.
josh@topaz.ARPA (J Storrs Hall) (01/16/85)
> > Perhaps one solution to having the Connecticut Police > ... > 1) You zip by an unmarked patrol car at 65 ... I was once stopped in Conn. on i-95 (doing 68). I asked the officer point-blank what speed they stopped people for exceeding (it obviously wasn't 55). He replied "Keep it below 65, you'll be ok." I assume no responsibility should you try to use this information. --JoSH
davis@hplabs.UUCP (Jim Davis) (01/19/85)
I thought I would pass on some off the wall thoughts
that came up in conversation with a friend. Of course,
none of these imply anything about my employer, myself,
or my friends.
First, consider the applications of Stealth Technology
to cars. Since we only have to look like thin air in two
relatively small bands of the radar spectrum, it is not
nearly the problem that making a plane disappear over a
wide range of detecting frequencies is. (Good, I would
not want to pay billions [bi-sagans, semi-sagans?] for my
car.) We don't even have to look like empty air, it we
simply design the car so that all of the radar energy
reflects up, then it will be obvious that the car is there,
but the police officer won't get any speed reading.
Second, we could even advertise our presence. Think of
two radar emitters on the car so that it will appear to be
going 55 mph whenever the officer "shoots" it. (One doppler
shifted down pointing forward, and one upshifter pointing
backward.) Of course, the Electronic Countermeasures war
would be on. The police would use (if they don't already)
chirped signals, we would need smarter misleaders.
( Think of the help that this consumer interest would bring to
the defense industries :-) )
Again I point out that these are simply flights of
fancy and not meant to get me investigated by anybody
with a TLA.
--
----------------------------------
Jim Davis (James W Davis)
Email: {any_of_the_biggies} !hplabs!davis
Arpa: davis%hp-labs@csnet-relay
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