djw@lanl.ARPA (05/07/85)
For the last five years I have been refusing to disclose my Social Security Account number to just about everybody. I wonder what all of you out there think about this? The Privacy Act of 1974 requires that you obtain congressional approval before you obtain my SSA# from me. You must publish the fact that you have the Congressional approval each year in The Federal Register along with a very complete justification of your records system. These rules ( and the Privacy Act of 1974, itself ) apply to Government agencies, Subcontractors, and just about anyone who sells any service or product to the government. There is a set of "regulations" of HEW that state similar things that apply to any educational institution and another set of "regulations" that apply to banking institutions. These are all similar to The Privacy Act of 1974 - Public Law 93 - 579. A large credit card corporation wanted to hire me to create a data base of information gleaned from scraping other data bases keyed on SSA#. I was able to get another job before the offer expired so I was saved from this but I began to refuse to give out my SSA# then. Someone else wrote their program and I hope he didn't do it well. I read a lot of Science Fiction stories when I was young and I think I can understand the reasoning behind having a Universal Identifying Indicia for each person, but it seems to me that it was always the bad guys who were in charge of these data bases in the stories. Do you suppose that this is just a prejudice on my part or could it be my windmill and I just think that it is a meaningful deed? I am fortunate in that I work for the University of California and they allow me my idiosyncracy; mostly. I must often joust with them about not giving my Social Security Account number to the dental plan carrier, or the health plan carrier, or the AD&D administrator; they don't need it and their payments are tax free anyway. They don't have Congressional Authority to get the number, and they know the law and don't really care what number I give them. The place where I do my banking was a little concerned however. They seem to have worked out a reasonable solution, though. They deduct the 20% withholding from my interest income and provide me with a statement and the taxpayer's identification number that they assigned me... I think that they finally read the law and I believe that this is a reasonable compromise. I will certainly report their $23.00 worth of interest income each year. And they can continue to withhold 20%. Please send me your e-mail about this as I sometimes feel a little foolish, but each time I explain it to someone, they start to agree. P.S. That large corporation out in California makes a lot of its money by lending money to large corporations and is thusly an owner of those other corporation's data bases. It would not be wrong to assume that the financial corporation intended to scrape those other corporation's data bases. David Wade
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (05/07/85)
> The place where I do my banking was a little concerned however. They seem > to have worked out a reasonable solution, though. They deduct the 20% > withholding from my interest income and provide me with a statement and > the taxpayer's identification number that they assigned me... I think > that they finally read the law and I believe that this is a reasonable > compromise. I will certainly report their $23.00 worth of interest > income each year. And they can continue to withhold 20%. > They are not being obstinate, they are required by law to withhold tax on interest for people that they do not have taxpayer identification numbers for. This is part of an attempt to start collecting tax on a lot of unreported interest earnings. Originally, they were just going to withhold the tax from everybody. What blocked this law was the postpaid reply card lobby. The banks sent their customers a card that was preaddressed to their congressmen. All you had to do was write in that you were opposed to the law and drop it in the mailbox. If you had any substantial income, you'd probably want to give the bank your social security number so you wouldn't have it withheld. Sort of defeats the idea of compound interest. The banks should not use the SSN for anything else (like credit reporting) but I don't know how you'd enforce it. Not being in the great SSN database can present problems. Try getting a credit history together. Try getting credit without history. The FAA points out that you are not required to list your SSN and if you do not, they will make up another number for your pilots license. I'd rather use my SSN, it's one less thing to remember. I wish this state would let you voluntarily use your SSN as your driver's license number rather than the godawful 13 digit SOUNDEX code they use now. -Ron Ron Natalie N-340-744-098-927 20-32 245 67 54C E2298077 0014026693 etc...
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (05/08/85)
One strange use of the SSN by unauthorized people that I ran into: Back about ten or so years ago, I went to a country auction with my wife's uncle, who was a great auction buff. The people running the auction, when they handed out bid numbers to those who wanted to bid, asked for the bidder's SSN! I not only found this an objectionable use of the SSN by someone not authorized to request it, but also was somewhat amazed because I couldn't figure out what use it could possibly be! After all, the police departments state that engraving your possessions with your SSN does no good -- they cannot get the Social Security Administration to give them names & addresses for an SSN -- so they say to use a Driver's License number (which leaves out non-drivers, unless they get a state ID for non-drivers from the Drivers' License issuers). So what could these auctioneers use an SSN for, even if you did give them a bad check? [They usually insist on cash or traveller's checks or certified checks or money orders anyway.] This has stuck in my mind as the most off-the-wall misuse of the SSN I ever noticed... Will
jayt@ssc-vax.UUCP (Jay T McCanta) (05/09/85)
> For the last five years I have been refusing to disclose my Social Security > Account number to just about everybody. I wonder what all of you out there > think about this? > All though I agree with you, I have found that I need the plactics cards to survive. The credit people insist on it so alas I gave in. Here at Boeing, they use your SSAN for you employee number, and I have to put it on everything. I would like to see that changed, but I feel it wiser to be quiet for the moment. What really gets me is that the CREDIT UNION uses it as my account number. After reading this, I think I'll call them and ask them to change it. There is no reason for it to appear on my checks, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------- The proper way to eat potato chips is with a knife and fork ... ... a fish knife and an oyster fork. Miss Manners ------------------------------------------------------------------- Jay T. McCanta Boeing Aerospace These ideas are mine and I claim them. Kent, Wa. My employer may not want to share in claiming. {uw-beaver|adiron|cesonix|argus|purdue}!ssc-vax!jayt
erice@tekig.UUCP (Eric Etheridge) (05/14/85)
HEY!!! I've got a good story about getting credit! Well, Amex was insisting on me applying for one of their silly little prestige-gold-additional- marketeering-motivational-adjectives cards and....well, they wanted the old SSN. So, lesse what's got 9 digits, two dashes, and is easier to uniquely identify an individual's database in a computer with than a name? Hmmm, how about 483-29-6327. About two weeks later I get a call from their goofball department wanting to know if this is really my SSN or if 937-27-3826 is, a number which I can practically GUARANTEE I would have never made up. (Two pair) Well, they sed that sometimes the credit bureau gets confused about mommies and daddies SSN and those of offspring. SOOOOoooo..... I guess I never did manage to get the super dooper wanker card but I just got a regular one. Does that mean that they will give the little wanker's card to anyone who asks even if the do make up SSN's or that they can't tell the differance and don't care? It sounds to me like you can just go a head and start your credit history (if you actually even WANT one) with whichever number just occurs to you and proceed to build a most respectable and generous background. SUPPOSEDLY the law requires only that you reveal your SSN to your employer and, I guess now, your interest payer though it sounds like you won't go to jail for refusing to do the latter. Anybody else is unjustified in the asking so??????? But if you want whatever they've got so bad I guess it's time to bend over. Is there any truth to the rumor that TRW maintains the credit historys for everybody in the universe?
wetcw@pyuxa.UUCP (T C Wheeler) (05/15/85)
As for making up an SSN, think for a moment. In the course of 30 or 40 years, given the eccentricities of computers, the memory, and anything else that could go wrong, the likelyhood of your ever being able to collect SSN (assuming it is still around when you retire) is questionable. I have heard of a number of horror stories about folks who made up numbers and latter got stiffed by the system. Other cases abound where because someone made up a number, someone else, who REALLY belonged to the number, got screwed. And yes, TRW has a bead on everyone, including those six alien astronauts living in the laboratory on the sixth planet of the Del-Cross system in sector IV. T. C. Wheeler
fc@spuxll.UUCP (fc) (05/21/85)
Now that mv agencies are asking for SSN numbers for drivers licenses, there will be many more opportunities for the state to catch the wayward: 1. Compare SSN mv lists to tax lists to see who isnt paying. 2. Check with other states to see who has duplicate licenses. 3. Make it very easy to give you points for traffic violations that occur across state boundaries. 4. Check that your address is not phony - your landlord has your SSN number cause the government requires him to pay interest on your security deposit.
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (05/23/85)
> 2. Check with other states to see who has duplicate licenses. They already have a very nice system to find out if you have a license in another state. It's called NDIC. > 3. Make it very easy to give you points for traffic violations that > occur across state boundaries. Neither Colorado nor Maryland use SSN's as license number (Maryland uses a "Soundex" number which is a hash on how the computer expects your name to be pronounced and Colorado just numbers them serially, if you ask nice they'll dig down in the stack of license blanks and find a good number for you) but Maryland threatened to send the points to Colorado. -Ron