traite@wanginst.UUCP (Paul Traite) (05/23/85)
I've had these thoughts for a while, but publicity on a recent case got me to thinking (dangerous, I know) about the topic again. A man has been in a coma for two years, medical diagnosis is no hope for recovery (brain dead). The man's wife, the man's brothers, the family clergy all agree that he wouldn't have wanted to remain connected to life-support; they want the hospital to disconnect all life-support, including feeding. The hospital (I'm not sure if any of the doctors are involved) are refusing to disconnect. Obviously (this is America), its in the courts now. My question is this: suppose that the courts rule that he can be disconnected. If he has life insurance, will the company pay up? The reason I think it is open to debate is that I believe that life insurance policies exclude pay-off for 'suicide'. If the courts allow disconnection because the man would have wanted it, might this be construed as suicide? Delving further into the gray area of debate, what if the reason for the man's coma was that he attempted to commit suicide? (In the case that sparked this article, the man's coma was due to a burst anurism in the brain). Paul Traite -- uucp ...!decvax!wanginst!traite csnet traite%wanginst@csnet-relay
donn@neurad.UUCP (Donn S. Fishbein) (05/27/85)
> ... a man has been in a coma for two years, medical diagnosis > is no hope for recovery (brain dead)... all agree that he wouldn't have > wanted to remain connected to life-support... > hospital is refusing to disconnect. Obviously (this is America), > its in the courts now. > > My question is this: suppose that the courts rule that he can be > disconnected. If he has life insurance, will the company pay up? > ...life insurance policies exclude pay-off for 'suicide'. Brain death has more or less been explicitly accepted as indicating death of the person in a series of U.S. court cases. 18 states have enacted statutes accepting the diagnosis of brain death as death of a person. Regardless of the legal questions, a person who is brain dead will develop failure of the cardiovascular system and cessation of the heartbeat within several days, or rarely, within several weeks (note that brain death implies cessation of spontaneous respiration). Accepting brain death as legal evidence of death avoids prolonging a hopeless struggle for the patient, his/her family, and the medical staff, and allows organ transplantation while organs are still viable, [REF: Plum and Posner, The Diagnosis of Stupor and Coma, 3 ed., pp313-323] The original question would be more challenging if the diagnosis left no hope for recovery for some reason other than brain death. -- Donn S. Fishbein, MD (N3DNT) (301)496-6801 ..!{harpo,allegra,decvax,ihnp4}!seismo!neurad!donn
rcj@burl.UUCP (R. Curtis Jackson) (06/04/85)
> My question is this: suppose that the courts rule that he can be > disconnected. If he has life insurance, will the company pay up? > The reason I think it is open to debate is that I believe that > life insurance policies exclude pay-off for 'suicide'. If the > courts allow disconnection because the man would have wanted it, > might this be construed as suicide? > > Delving further into the gray area of debate, what if the reason > for the man's coma was that he attempted to commit suicide? (In a) No, not if there is a living will. I am going to draw one up shortly for that very reason, also to make sure that my family does not spend a whole lot of money to bury me somewhere or haul my body back to Alabama. If there is not a living will, it could get VERY sticky. b) If the reason for the man's coma is an attempted suicide, and the insurance does not pay for suicides, then the insurance should not pay. Just as in cheating on taxes or running a red light, "You lays yo' bets an' then yo' takes yo' chances." -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/07/85)
> a) No, not if there is a living will. I am going to draw one up shortly > for that very reason, also to make sure that my family does not spend > a whole lot of money to bury me somewhere or haul my body back to Alabama. > If there is not a living will, it could get VERY sticky. > Unfortunately, a living will does not guarantee anything. Best to also make sure that your relatives understand your feelings and agrees to it. Otherwise they can circumvent things like organ donation preferences that you have previously indicated. -Ron
rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) (06/07/85)
In article <11235@brl-tgr.ARPA> ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes: >Unfortunately, a living will does not guarantee anything. Best to also >make sure that your relatives understand your feelings and agrees to it. >Otherwise they can circumvent things like organ donation preferences that >you have previously indicated. Is this really true? I carry my organ donor card with me at all times; it is signed by me and two witnesses as required. At the bottom of the card is: THIS IS A LEGAL DOCUMENT UNDER THE UNIFORM ANATOMICAL GIFT ACT (ARTICLE ... [blurred] OF THE NORTH CAROLINA GENERAL STATUTES) Can some relative really circumvent this? On the back of the card, I specify exactly what I wish to donate (everything, in my case) and exactly what restrictions I wish to put on to modify the multiple- choice section (none, in my case). If someone CANNOT circumvent my donation completely, can they bastardize it by saying, for instance, that only internal organs can be donated (i.e., no eyes)? -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj
mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Monica Cellio) (06/09/85)
From: ihnp4!burl!rcj@ut-sally (Curtis Jackson) >In article <11235@brl-tgr.ARPA> ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes: >>Unfortunately, a living will does not guarantee anything. Best to also >>make sure that your relatives understand your feelings and agrees to it. >>Otherwise they can circumvent things like organ donation preferences that >>you have previously indicated. > >Is this really true? Uniform Donor Cards are binding legal documents; I don't think your relatives could interfere with that. A living will is a statement you sign saying that you don't want to be kept alive artificially, and doesn't bind your doctors or relatives to carry it out. It is just a statement of your wishes and cannot be enforced. (Living Wills do have a space for indicating whether you want to donate organs; I don't know what the status of that part would be if you didn't also have a donor card.) -Dragon -- UUCP: ...ucbvax!dual!lll-crg!dragon ARPA: monica.cellio@cmu-cs-cad or dragon@lll-crg
ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (06/10/85)
> In article <11235@brl-tgr.ARPA> ron@brl-tgr.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) writes: > >Unfortunately, a living will does not guarantee anything. Best to also > >make sure that your relatives understand your feelings and agrees to it. > >Otherwise they can circumvent things like organ donation preferences that > >you have previously indicated. > > Is this really true? I carry my organ donor card with me at all times; From "Lisa's Last, Best Gift," WASHINGTONIAN, November 1984: If you want to donate, you should make these preparations. Maryland, Virginia, and the [District of Columbia] all offer organ-donation cards with driver's license renewals. Signing one of these is a good first step. In addition, tell your next of kin about your wishes. Recently in Maryland, a man about to undergo a risky brain operation signed a statement willing his organs for donation. He lost brain function during surgery, and his nearest relative turned out to be a long-estranged wife who adamantly refused to allow his organs to be transplanted, twarting the husband's final wish. "When people have left specific written instructions to donate their organs and the family goes against it, we let it drop. We might be able to win in court, but that's winning the battle and losing the war. It would create a lot of bad publicity and turn people off to donataion. The message is clear. If you want your organs donated so that they might help someone else, let those closest to you know your wishes. -Ron
meister@linus.UUCP (Phillip W. Servita) (06/14/85)
In article <337@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA> mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA writes: >Uniform Donor Cards are binding legal documents; I don't think your relatives >could interfere with that. Unfortunately, uniform donor cards are NOT binding legal documents. The next of kin STILL has the final say. Something should really be done about this. -the venn buddhist