rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) (08/25/85)
My full name is Robert Curtis Jackson II. My signature is a barely- recognizable scrawl that looks something like Robt Curt Jack___ # where '#' is a little squiggle. It never varies by much, but is all mine. My question is, in some places (legal documents, company vouchers) my signature has been refused -- they tell me I have to sign my name exactly as it appears on form X. Well, I \am/ signing my name as I have always signed it -- I have oodles of examples in my wallet to prove it. Should I (and can I legally) tell these people to go jump; that by damn they already \have/ my real signature? Or is there some legal basis for this? Thanks, -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj
wiso@ihnss.UUCP (Jack Wisowaty) (08/26/85)
A friend of mine has a complete scrawl for a signature, essentially no recognizable letters in it. Yet he is perfectly consistent about it and has all of his identification with that signature on it. He enjoys telling a story of a motel owner in Arkansas who refused to accept his scrawl as a proper signature on a credit card receipt. She insisted that he write it so that she could read it. After getting nowhere trying to explain that if she could read it it wouldn't be his real signature and the credit card company would bounce the transaction, he acquiesced and signed with his left-hand (he's right-handed) a signature befitting a first-grader where all the letter could be read. She accepted it, the credit-card company didn't and he had a free night's stay. Sounds to me like you should just smile and say "whatever you want" when someone tells you to sign the "wrong" signature to something. Jack Wioswaty ihnp4!ihnss!wiso
wmartin@brl-tgr.ARPA (Will Martin ) (08/28/85)
In article <2590@ihnss.UUCP> wiso@ihnss.UUCP (Jack Wisowaty) writes: > After getting nowhere trying to explain that >if she could read it it wouldn't be his real signature and the credit card >company would bounce the transaction, he acquiesced and signed with his >left-hand (he's right-handed) a signature befitting a first-grader where >all the letter could be read. She accepted it, the credit-card company >didn't and he had a free night's stay. > Interesting -- I have never seen *any* evidence that any credit-card company EVER looked at the signature on a charge-card form, or even that a bank ever looked at the signature on a check, to verify that the signer was the correct person. If you could get more information about this incident and post it, it would be appreciated -- did your friend notify the credit-card company that there might be a questionable charge coming through from this particular location? Or did he challenge it after receiving the bill and request a copy of the charge slip, and then point out the dissimilarity of signature form? I thought that the signatures were only used as evidence after-the-fact, as verifcation of questionable charges, or as a method to prove the falseness of a charge. After all, it would be an enormous task for any credit-card company to compare signatures on file with those on the millions of charge slips that come through. As for banks, they hardly ever even LOOK at a check these days -- the processing is all done by the magnetic encoded numbers and handled automatically. Only after a bogus check is detected by the account holder would it be looked at by a human (except for the keypunch-like translation of the amount to magnetic digit imprint, which I think happens at the clearinghouse). Thanks for further detail! Regards, Will Martin UUCP/USENET: seismo!brl-bmd!wmartin or ARPA/MILNET: wmartin@almsa-1.ARPA
smk@axiom.UUCP (Steven M. Kramer) (08/29/85)
You can sign you name as you want. If you want to sign it as X you
may do so. However, in that case you may be asked to supply witnesses
that the signature is yours.
I sympathize with you. People take my signature as Stan Kran sometimes.
Let them! I can sign my name *fast*, it's always garbled, but it's also
very hard to duplicate because there are some telltale squiggles in
certain places that are hard to see (I write very small also).
--
--steve kramer
{allegra,genrad,ihnp4,utzoo,philabs,uw-beaver}!linus!axiom!smk (UUCP)
linus!axiom!smk@mitre-bedford (MIL)mcb@styx.UUCP (Michael C. Berch) (08/30/85)
> [Discussion of legality of forms of signature.]
According to the common law of most states, a signature is simply any
writing intended to personally authenticate a document. So it doesn't
really matter whether you sign "X" or whatever. (This common law rule has
been supplanted by specific statutes in many states dealing with
particular transactions and documents, such as wills. All states
except Louisiana have also adopted the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC)
that deals with such matters as valid check endorsements, etc.)
As a case in point, I generally endorse checks by printing my name and
account number on the back of the check. That way I don't have to try
to make my signature come out the same if I'm (for example) writing
while standing in line. Once, the teller scowled at my endorsement and
asked me to endorse the check again with my "usual signature". I
pointed out the law regarding endorsements and mentioned by way of
example that most businesses (including my own) endorse checks with a
stamp. She thought about that for a minute and accepted the check.
The key here is the distinction between using the signature to
authenticate the document vs. to identify the signer. They are two
different things. I can understand that if I wanted cash for the check
it would have been bank policy to get a "usual signature" so it could
compare it against a signature card (identification of the signer). On
the other hand, since I was depositing the check in the drawee's (my
own) account, any legal endorsement (including, curiously, no
endorsement) should have been acceptable.
Michael C. Berch
mcb@lll-tis-b.ARPA
{akgua,allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,dual,ihnp4,sun}!idi!styx!mcbmmar@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Mitchell Marks) (09/03/85)
From: smk@axiom.UUCP (Steven M. Kramer) >I sympathize with you. People take my signature as Stan Kran sometimes. >Let them! I can sign my name *fast*, it's always garbled, but it's also >very hard to duplicate because there are some telltale squiggles in >certain places that are hard to see (I write very small also). -- I've always heard advice along the lines that a legible signature is harder to forge. I think that was meant to still allow for a distinctive style -- not just writing your name the way you would any ole word, but not just a squiggle or a bird's nest, either. Steve, if the telltale squiggles are ``hard to see'', what good do they do? -- -- Mitch Marks @ UChicago ...ihnp4!gargoyle!sphinx!mmar
smk@axiom.UUCP (Steven M. Kramer) (09/04/85)
From: mmar@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Mitchell Marks) > Steve, if the telltale squiggles are ``hard to see'', what good do > they do? If someone tries to write my signature and thinks any ol' bump and turn will do, I can spot it as a forgery. The squiggles ARE visible, but not too pronounced, so that I have a safeguard if a bank ever said another signature was mine. I think it is easier to reproduce those signatures that are very clean; the ones in which each line is big and clearly seen. I used to do that with kicks to my mother's signature which was always very nicely written. Of course, she didn't like it, but she never had to sign a bad report card when I was a kid. :-) -- --steve kramer {allegra,genrad,ihnp4,utzoo,philabs,uw-beaver}!linus!axiom!smk (UUCP) linus!axiom!smk@mitre-bedford (MIL)
fred@mot.UUCP (Fred Christiansen) (09/13/85)
i have had some banks tell i *must* endorse a check, even to deposit, whilst
others have not quibbled over no signature on a deposit. is there some law
reference i can throw at them the next they insist i endorse a check for
deposit?
as an aside: elementary school teachers try to teach you to write clearly,
legibly, etc. so, my signature is fairly legible. oddly enough, i have been
questioned by banks in Europe and Africa as to whether or not that really *was*
my signature. why, it was legible! turns out, these places encourage one to
come up with a complicated signature .. lots of zips, dips, and doo-dads.
--
<< Generic disclaimer >>
Fred Christiansen ("Canajun, eh?") @ Motorola Microsystems, Tempe, AZ
UUCP: {seismo!terak, trwrb!flkvax, utzoo!mnetor, ihnp4!btlunix}!mot!fred
ARPA: oakhill!mot!fred@ut-sally.ARPA AT&T: 602-438-3472