[net.legal] CPR, First Aid, & Liability

aglew@ccvaxa.UUCP (01/29/86)

Damn the torpedoes!
This becomes a moral question as well as a legal one.
If you come upon someone injured, know (or think you know) what the
appropriate first aid is, but are not trained in it:
seek trained help. If there is no trained help, and it does not
appear that the subject will survive long enough to get to trained
help, I would help to the best of my knowledge nontheless.
Damn the legal consequences - all they can take is my money.

The Canadian Royal Life Saving Society posed this problem for us
in terms of spinal injuries: what do you do if you come on someone floating
face-down in the water with an apparently broken back? turning them over,
or even attempting to apply AR from underneath, might cut their spinal
cord. I always think of such a situation happening if I am on a cycle
trip with a  friend in Northern Ontario, swimming and diving in a lake.

matt@rocky2.UUCP (Matt Blaze) (01/30/86)

Just to add one additional comment: as I have always understood it,
ARC certificicates really have no legal status at all (except when
they are required by a specific state or local statute, such as
a lifeguard who is required to have an ALS certificate.  Few, if
any, states require a certificate for a private citizen who comes
to the aid of an accident victim as far as I know).  In particular,
a CPR certificate is not a "license" to perform CPR, nor is one
required.  The important issue is not whether the rescuer has a
valid certificate, or even ever took a course, but rather that
he acted within the limits of what one would expect a reasonable
lay person to do.  Even without specific laws to protect rescuers
against lawsuits, it would be very hard to win a suit against
someone who does CPR on someone who actually *needed* it.  After
all, a key element of a civil suit is damages.  Anyone who needs
CPR is clinically dead, so even with the worst rescue efforts
imaginable one would be hard pressed to show that someone was
damaged by the attempt.  Of course, things become much less
clear when someone does CPR on a person who is breathing, or
a rescuer who abandons his/her efforts without being releaved
by another rescuer.  Similarly, in cases of severe bleeding,
unless the rescuer's efforts to control the bleeding actually
*increase* the bleeding (such as by submerging the wound in
water), the attempt itself causes no damage, hence there is no
basis for a lawsuit.  None of this, of course, would apply in
cases where the rescuer caused the victim's injury in the
first place!

@begin<Disclaimer>
I am not a lawyer, nor do I even want to be.  This is only
my unprofessional understanding of what the law is, based
on my experience as an ARC CPR instructor-trainer.
@begin<sub-disclaimer>
Nothing above should be taken as representing the opinion
of the American Red Cross, or anyone else for that matter.
@end<sub-disclaimer>
@end<Disclaimer>

-Matt Blaze
based o

wcs@ho95e.UUCP (x0705) (02/05/86)

In article <152@rocky2.UUCP> matt@rocky2.UUCP (Matt Blaze) writes:
>Just to add one additional comment: as I have always understood it,
>ARC certificicates really have no legal status at all (except when
	However, it does protect the Red Cross a bit -
If ARC didn't have a certification process, and you botch a CPR job,
the victim(or at least his lawyer) can try to sue the ARC for not
teaching you right, &c.  If you have an expired certification, they can
get out more easily.
	It also has the benefit of reminding you when you need
retraining.  My certification expired a month or two ago, and I *know*
I've forgotten a lot of the timing details, and that I ought to go back
if there's ever a convenient time.

> [if] the attempt itself causes no damage, hence there is no
>basis for a lawsuit.  
Who needs a basis?  This is New Jersey.

-- 
# Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G-202, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs

fish@ihu1g.UUCP (Bob Fishell) (02/06/86)

> 
> 
> 
> Damn the torpedoes!
> This becomes a moral question as well as a legal one.
> If you come upon someone injured, know (or think you know) what the
> appropriate first aid is, but are not trained in it:
> seek trained help. If there is no trained help, and it does not
> appear that the subject will survive long enough to get to trained
> help, I would help to the best of my knowledge nontheless.
> Damn the legal consequences - all they can take is my money.

The U.S. Congress had considered this dilemma a number of years ago, and
passed what has been known as the "Good Samaritan Act."  I don't know
all the details, but it is a law which limits the liabilities of persons,
including doctors, who stop to render emergency aid in life-threatening
situations.  The law was needed because many doctors were refusing to
render emergency aid in such situations, fearing malpractice suits.
 __
/  \
\__/			Bob Fishell
			ihnp4!ihu1g!fish
-- 
 __
/  \
\__/			Bob Fishell
			ihnp4!ihu1g!fish

mpr@mb2c.UUCP (Mark Reina) (02/06/86)

> > Damn the torpedoes!
> > This becomes a moral question as well as a legal one.
> > If you come upon someone injured, know (or think you know) what the
> > appropriate first aid is, but are not trained in it:
> > seek trained help. If there is no trained help, and it does not
> > appear that the subject will survive long enough to get to trained
> > help, I would help to the best of my knowledge nontheless.
> > Damn the legal consequences - all they can take is my money.
> 
> The U.S. Congress had considered this dilemma a number of years ago, and
> passed what has been known as the "Good Samaritan Act."  I don't know
> all the details, but it is a law which limits the liabilities of persons,
> including doctors, who stop to render emergency aid in life-threatening
> situations.  The law was needed because many doctors were refusing to
> render emergency aid in such situations, fearing malpractice suits.
> /  \
> \__/			Bob Fishell
> 			ihnp4!ihu1g!fish

I don't see what this problem has to do with the U.S. Congress.  This type
of liability is usually covered under state laws (unless the "good samaritan"
is in the armed forces). Bob Fishell, are you sure of your facts?
What is the USCA citation?

			   Mark Reina

ron@brl-smoke.ARPA (Ron Natalie <ron>) (02/09/86)

> 
> The U.S. Congress had considered this dilemma a number of years ago, and
> passed what has been known as the "Good Samaritan Act."  I don't know
> all the details, but it is a law which limits the liabilities of persons,
> including doctors, who stop to render emergency aid in life-threatening
> situations.  The law was needed because many doctors were refusing to
> render emergency aid in such situations, fearing malpractice suits.

The U.S. Congress did no such thing.  Good Samaritan laws have been
passed in nearly every state of the Union, but it has been done by
the state legislatures each time.  

Nancy Caroline, MD in her book "Emergency Care in the Streets" states:
Most states, have a Good Samaritan Act to protect physicians, and
sometimes others, from legal action resulting from their participation
in emergency treatment.  The Florida Good Samaritan legislation of 1065
is fairly representative of such acts:
	Any person, including those licensed to practice medicine, who
	gratuitously and in good faith renders emergency medical care or
	treatment at the scene of an emergency outside of a hospital,
	doctors office or other place having proper medical equipment,
	without objection of the injured victim or victims thereof,
	shall not be held liable for any civil damages as a result of
	any act or failure to act in providing or arranging further
	medical treatment where the person acts as an ordinary
	resonable prudent man would have acted under the same circumstances.

-Ron